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Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Menachos 104



(a) Our Mishnah forbids donating one, two or five Lugin of wine - because it does not tally with any official Minchas Nesachim.

(b) On the other hand, the Tana permits a donation of ...

1. ... three, four or six Lugin - because three Lugin is the Minchas Nesachim of a lamb, four, of a ram, and six, of a bull.
2. ... more that six Lugin - because it will always be possible to divide it into two or three (e.g. seven Lugin can be divided into three for a lamb and four for a ram).
(c) We ask whether 'Yesh K'va li'Nesachim' - meaning that whatever a person undertakes to give, he must give in one go, or whether he brings four out of the five Lugin (say) that he donated, and the rest is bought separately ('Ein K'va li'Nesachim'), as we shall see.

(d) Assuming that we hold 'Yesh K'va li'Nesachim', if someone designates five Lugin of wine - he must add one Log and bring it as the Minchas Nesachim of a bull.

(a) Abaye tries to resolve the She'eilah from the Beraisa 'Shishah li'Nedavah'. The first four boxes were marked 'Mosar Chatas', 'Mosar Ashamos', 'Mosar Asham Nazir' and 'Mosar Asham Metzora'. 'Mosar Chatas' constituted - leftovers from money that was designated for a Chatas (i.e. if, after designating money for one's Chatas, the price of lambs went down).

(b) 'Ashamos' incorporates - Asham Gezeilos and Asham Me'ilos.

(c) An independent box was needed for ...

1. ... Mosar Asham Nazir - because whereas the aforementioned Ashamos came to atone, the latter came to render the hitherto Tamei Nazir ready to begin his Nezirus de'Taharah (as the Gilyon ha'Shas explains).
2. ... Mosar Asham Metzora - because it too, was different than the first two Ashamos, in that it came to permit the Metzora to return to the camp.
(d) One of the remaining two boxes was marked 'Mosar Kinin'. The second one was marked as - 'Mosar Minchas Chotei'.

(e) The money from all of these boxes was used - to purchase Olos for Nidvas Tzibur (as will be explained in the last Perek).

(a) Abaye tries to prove from the Beraisa - that 'Yesh K'va li'Nesachim'. Otherwise, he claims, the Tana ought to have added a seventh box.

(b) We refute this proof however - by pointing out that a box was not necessary for the Mosar Nesachim, for which, because they were common, one could always find another Mosar Nesachim which required the extra Log of wine.

(c) Rava resolves the She'eilah from a Beraisa. The Tana learns from the Pasuk (in connection with the Nesachim) "Kol *ha'Ezrach* Ya'aseh Kachah" that one may donate Nesachim. The minimum quantity of wine that could be donated was - three Lugin.

(a) The Beraisa learns from ...
1. ... "Yih'yeh" - that it was permitted to donate more than three Lugin of wine.
2. ... "Kachah" - that one could not donate less.
(b) From the Tana's Limud from "Yih'yeh" ('Yosif') Rava proves - that 'Ein K'va li'Nesachim', because once we know that one may donate three Lugin, it is obvious that one may also donate four or six Lugin (which is as much an official Minchas Nesachim as three), so the Pasuk must be coming to teach us that one may donate five Lugin.

(c) Rav Ashi queries Rava however, from our Mishnah 'Ein Misnadvin Log, Shenayim va'Chamishah'. Rav Ashi tries to disprove Rava from here - because he assumes that just as 'Shenayim' is not fit at all ('Yesh K'va li'Nesachim'), neither, is 'Chamishah'.

(d) We reject Rav Ashi's Kashya however - on the grounds that 'Ha ke'de'Iysa, ve'Ha ke'de'Iysa' (meaning that whereas 'Shenayim' is not fit at all, 'Chamishah' should not be brought Lechatchilah, but Bedi'eved, one brings four as a Minchas Nesachim for a ram, and the remainder is Mosar (because we hold 'Ein K'va li'Nesachim').

(a) When Abaye says 'Im Timtzi Lomar Yesh K'va li'Nesachim, ad Asarah P'shita Li', he means - that up to ten Lugin, it is obvious what they are used for: three for a lamb; four a ram; five, to add a sixth Log and use it for a bull; six for a bull; seven for a lamb and a ram; eight for two rams; nine for a lamb and a bull, and ten for a ram and a bull.

(b) He is not certain however, what the Din will be in a case where someone bring eleven Lugin - whether to add a Log and use it for two bulls, or to use it for a lamb and two rams.

(c) It is not obvious at all that the owner intended to bring two bulls, which are of the same kind of animal - because as the Nedavah stands, it still requires another Log, whereas it is ready to be brought for a lamb and two rams without any addition.

(d) The outcome of the She'eilah is 'Teiku'.




(a) According to Rebbi Akiva in our Mishnah, one can donate wine (but not oil) - which one pours into the bowl by the south-western Keren, from where it flows down to the Shitin.

(b) Rebbi Tarfon holds that one can donate oil too. If, he argues - wine can be brought as a Chovah and as a Nedavah, then so can oil.

(c) According to Rebbi Tarfon - the Kohen takes a Kemitzah from the oil, and burns it on the Mizbe'ach, and the Shirayim is distributed among the Kohanim.

(d) Rebbi Akiva counters - that one cannot compare the oil, which, when it comes as a Chovah, is brought together with the Minchah, but not separately, to the wine, which is brought separately.

7) Our Mishnah draws a distinction between partners donating one Isaron of flour on the one hand, and an Olah, a Shelamim or a bird, on the other - by forbidding the former, but permitting the latter.


(a) Rava extrapolates from our Mishnah - that in the opinion of both Rebbi Akiva and Rebbi Tarfon, one may donate a Minchas Nesachim (without a Korban) every day.

(b) He learns this - from the fact that they only discuss wine and oil on their own. Clearly, they agree that there is no problem about bringing a full Minchas Nesachim independently.

(c) We might have thought otherwise - because the Torah lists five kinds of Minchas Nedavah, ostensibly to preclude other Menachos from being brought as Nedavos.

(d) Rava therefore teaches us - that this is indeed the case with regard to S'tam, but not where he specifically donates a Minchas Nesachim.

(a) The five Menachos that are incorporated in Minchah S'tam are - So'les, Machavas, Marcheshes, and Chalos and Rekikin (of a Minchas Ma'afeh Tanur).

(b) 'Revuchah' is not counted as a sixth Minchah - because it cannot be brought as a Nedavah, only as part of the Korban Todah.

(a) We try to prove from the Pasuk ...
1. ... in Vayikra "Takriv Minchah" - that Shutfim cannot bring a Minchah.
2. ... in Pinchas "le'Oloseichem" - that they can bring an Olah.
(b) We counter the second proof from the Pasuk in Vayikra "Yakriv Korbano", and the first proof, from the Pasuk there "le'Minchoseichem". So we finally learn from the word "Nefesh" (in Vayikra) - that Shutfim cannot bring a Minchah.

(c) Rebbi in a Beraisa learns from ...

1. ... "Asher Yakrivu la'Hashem - that Shutfim can bring animal Korbanos, and from ...
2. ... "Nefesh" that they cannot bring a Minchah.
(d) Rebbi Yitzchak learns from the fact ...
1. ... that the Torah writes 'Nefesh' by a Minchah - that, seeing as it is usually a poor man who brings a Korban Minchah, when he does, Hashem reckons as if he had given Him his soul.
2. ... that the Torah prescribes five different kinds of Minchah ('Chamishah Miynei Tigun') - how much Hashem appreciates the poor man's donation, like a king who instructs his friend (whom he knows to be a poor man) who is preparing a Se'udah for him, to prepare him five different kinds of fried dishes, to increase his pleasure.
***** Hadran Alach 'he'Menachos ve'ha'Nesachim' *****

***** Perek Harei Alai Isaron *****


(a) Someone who undertakes to donate an Isaron brings one Isaron, says our Mishnah. In a case where he ...
1. ... specifies 'Esronos' - he brings two.
2. ... claims that he specified how many Esronos he would bring, but forgot what he said - he brings sixty Esronos.
(b) Since he may well not have said sixty Esronos - he stipulates that whatever he specified originally, constitutes his Chovah, and the rest, a Nedavah.

(c) According to the Tana Kama, someone who declared that he will bring a Minchah, may bring any of the five that we listed a little earlier. Rebbi Yehudah maintains - that he must bring a Minchas So'les, because it is the pick of the Menachos.

(d) A person who ...

1. ... declares that he will bring 'Menachos' or 'Miynei Menachos' - must bring two of any one of the five kinds of Menachos.
2. ... claims that he specified which Minchah or Miyn Minchah he would bring, but cannot remember what he said - must bring all five kinds.
(a) And finally, the Tana Kama rules that someone who claims that he specified a Minchah of Esronim, but cannot remember what he said - must bring sixty Esronim.

(b) According to Rebbi, he must bring all the Esronin from one to sixty (i.e. one consisting of one Isaron, one of two, one of three ... ) - because, based on the fact that he goes after the fixing of the K'li and having said 'Minchah', he must bring whatever he undertook, in one K'li, no less and no more. This obligates him to bring every possibility in a different K'li.

(a) We ask on the Mishnah's first two rulings 'Yavi Echad', 'Yavi Shetayim' - that it is obvious that 'Isaron' means one, and 'Esronos' (by virtue of the principle 'Miy'ut Rabim, Shenayim'), two.

(b) The Tana nevertheless sees it fit to insert them - because they serve as an introduction to the third ruling 'Pirashti, ve'Eino Yode'a Mah Pirashti, Yavi Shishim Isaron' ...

(c) ... which Chizkiyah establishes like Rebbi - who holds in the equivalent case in the Seifa 'Yavi Menachos shel Shishim Esronos me'Echad ve'ad Shishim'.

(d) By establishing the Mishnah when the Noder said 'Pirashti Esronos, Aval Lo Kava'tim bi'Cheli' - Rebbi Yochanan is able to establish the Mishnah like Rebbi (because his ruling in the Seifa is based on the fact that the Noder did fix the Minchah in a K'li [as we explained in the Mishnah]).

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