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prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Menachos 79


(a) We establish our Mishnah like Rebbi Meir (in a Beraisa).
According to the Beraisa, who is the Chachamim in our Mishnah (who holds that if the Todah turns out to be a Ba'al-Mum, the loaves are not sanctified)?

(b) According to Rebbi Yehudah there, the Machlokes between Rebbi Eliezer and Yehoshua concerns 'Chutz li'Mekomo'.
What do they both hold in a case where the Korban turns out to be a Ba'al Mum?

(c) Rebbi Eliezer compares Chutz li'Mekomo to Chutz li'Zemano (and the loaves are not Kadosh).
What does Rebbi Yehoshua say?

(d) What did Rebbi Eliezer comment after they had both voiced their respective opinions?

(a) Rebbi Eliezer prefers to learn P'sul Machshavah from P'sul Machshavah, rather than from P'sul ha'Guf.
On what grounds does Rebbi Yehoshua nevertheless learn Chutz li'Mekomo from a Ba'al-Mum?

(b) To what does he then compare she'Lo li'Mekomo, that is a P'sul Machshavah as well as not being Chayav Kareis?

(c) What was Rebbi Eliezer reaction to that?

(d) What is this indicative of?

(a) In answer to the Kashya why Rebbi Meir does not consider 'Nimtza'as Ba'al-Mum' a P'sul Kodem Shechitah (like 'Nimtza'as T'reifah'), we establish the Mishnah like Rebbi Akiva, who holds 'Im Alu, Lo Yerdu'.
What sort of Mum is he referring to?

(b) How does Rebbi Yehoshua counter this? Why, according to him, will even Rebbi Akiva agree that the loaves will not be sanctified?

(a) If a Chatas is Shechted with a Machsheves she'Lo bi'Zemanah, Im Alsah Lo Teired.
Why is that?

(b) And the same will apply, says Rabah, to a Machsheves Chutz li'Mekomah. What does Rava say?

(c) What is the basis of their Machlokes?

(d) On what grounds are we forced to say that Rava retracted?

(a) Our Mishnah equates the Din of the Minchah of the Milu'im (regarding 'Shachtah she'Lo li'Shemah') with the Lachmei Todah.
What will be the Din by the loaves of the Eil Nazir in the equivalent case?

(b) Why, according to Rav Papa, ought the Tana to have rather taught the Din by Eil Nazir?

(c) Then why did our Tana prefer to present it by Milu'im?

(d) What does our Mishnah say about Nesachim that were sanctified in a K'li, and the Korban is subsequently discovered to be Pasul? What difference does it make whether another Korban is available or not?

(a) What does Ze'iri learn from the Pasuk in Emor "Zevach u'Nesachim"?

(b) What problem does this create with our Mishnah 'ha'Nesachim she'Kidshu bi'Chli ve'Nimtza Zevach Pasul ... ve'Im La'av, Yipaslu be'Linah' (assuming that it became Pasul with the Shechitah)?

(c) We answer that it became Pasul with the Zerikah, adding 'like Rebbi'.
What does Rebbi say about something that has two Matirin?

(d) How will that explain our Mishnah?

(a) We refute the suggestion that the author of our must then be Rebbi however, establishing the Mishnah even like Rebbi Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon, and the Mishnah speaks when the blood spilled between the Shechitah and the Zerikah.
With which other Tana must Rebbi Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon then concur?

(b) What does Rebbi Shimon say about 'Kol ha'Omed li'Zrok'?

(c) How will that apply here?

Answers to questions



(a) What did Rav Chisda say about leftover Shemen of a Korban?

(b) In that case, why does our Mishnah permit bringing the Nesachim of a Pasul Korban with another Korban?

(c) Then why do we not apply the same principle with regard to the leftover Shemen?

(d) Why did Beis-Din not simply stipulate that the Nesachin should go out to Chulin?

(a) How did Matisyah ben Yehudah establish our Mishnah in answer to the Kashya that even now, people are likely to jump to the conclusion that one is permitted to use the Nesachim designated for one Korban for another one?

(b) What can we extrapolate from there?

(c) Then why does our Mishnah conclude 've'Im La'av, Yipaslu be'Linah', seeing as even if another Korban were to become available on that day and Linah will be avoided, it will be Pasul?

(a) According to the Chachamim, unblemished Korbenos Tzibur that are redundant, may be redeemed as they are. This might refer to the four lambs that remain in the Lishkas ha'Tela'im on Rosh Chodesh Nisan.
What else might it refer to?

(b) What is the Chachamim's reason?

(c) Rebbi Shimon forbids their redemption.
In what connection does he do that?

(d) So how do we reconcile Rebbi Shimon there with Rebbi Shimon in our Sugya, whom we just established, holds 'Leiv Beis-Din Masneh Aleihem'?

(a) Our Mishnah discusses the baby of a Todah, its Temurah and its Chiluf.
What does 'Chiluf' mean?

(b) What does the Tana say about them?

(c) What do we learn from the Pasuk in Tzav ...

  1. ... "Im al *Todah Yakriv*" (in connection with 'Chilufah')?
  2. ... "Yakrivenu"?
(a) What does "Im al Todah" come to include?

(b) But did we not just include 'Chalifos' already?

(c) And what does "Ve'hikriv al Zevach ha'Todah" then come to preclude?

(d) What did Rebbi Chananyah citing Rebbi Yochanan say? In which case do even the above three animals require Lechem?

Answers to questions

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