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Menachos 23

MENACHOS 23 (3 Cheshvan) - dedicated l'Iluy Nishmas Malka bas Menashe (and Chana), Mollie Krause, in honor of her third Yahrzeit, by her daughter Gitle Bekelnitzky. Under both material and spiritual duress, she and her husband raised their children in the spirit of our fathers, imbuing them with a love for Torah and Yiddishkeit. Her home was always open to the needy, even when her family did not have enough to feed themselves.


(a) According to Rebbi Yochanan, the Kometz of a Minchas Chotei to which one added oil is Pasul.
What does Resh Lakish say?

(b) How will Resh Lakish explain the Pasuk in Vayikra (in connection with a Minchas Chotei) "Lo Yasim Alehah Shemen ... "?

(c) Rebbi Yochanan queried Resh Lakish from a Beraisa. The Tana Kama there says 'Charev she'Nis'arev be'Balul, Yakriv'.
Why is that?

(d) What does Rebbi Yehudah say?

(a) What would the Rabbanan say if some Sheyarei Shemen fell on to the 'Charev'?

(b) Rebbi Yochanan assumes that 'Chorev' and 'Balul' refer to the Kometz of a Minchas Chotei and 'Balul', to that of a Minchas Nedavah respectively.
How does Resh Lakish interpret them?

(c) What is the difference in this regard between Parim and Eilim (on the one hand), and Kevasim (on the other)? What is the ratio of Lugin per Isaron?

(d) What would be the Din if the Kometz of a Minchas Chotei became mixed up with that of a 'Balul', according to Resh Lakish?

(a) What problem does Rebbi Yochanan have with Resh Lakish's answer, based on the Mishnah itself?

(b) Resh Lakish replied 'Pirushi ka'Mefaresh'.
What did he mean by that?

(a) Rava asked what the Din will be if the Kohen squeezes the oil out of the Kometz on to the Ma'arachah, before placing the Kometz on top of it.
Why might it not be a case of 'Chaser Komtzo'?

(b) In a case where someone sacrifices ba'Chutz a limb which only comprises a k'Zayis together with the bone, Rebbi Yochanan rules 'Chayav'.
What does Resh Lakish say?

(c) What is the basis of their Machlokes?

(d) What did Ravina now suggest to Rav Ashi (e) Rav Ashi replied that the She'eilah is applicable both according to Rebbi Yochanan and according to Resh Lakish.
Why might even ...

  1. ... Rebbi Yochanan concede that, in our case (of the Kometz and the oil), 'Chiburei Olin La'av ke'Olin Dami'?
  2. ... Resh Lakish concede that in our case 'Chiburei Olin ke'Olin Dami'?
(a) What does our Mishnah say about two Menachos that became mixed-up? At which point do they become Pasul'?

(b) How do we learn this from the Pasuk in Vayikra (in connection with the Kemitzah) "mi'Soltah"?

(c) Why can the Kohen not ...

  1. ... burn the entire mixture?
  2. ... simply take two Kemitzos from the mixture and burn them?
(a) The Tana also forbids burning a Kometz that became mixed up with a Minchah from which the Kemitzah was not taken.
Why is that?

(b) What do we learn from the Pasuk in Vayikra "Lo Saktiru Mimenu Isheh la'Hashem"?

(c) What does the Tana rule in a case where the Kohen burned the Kometz of a Minchah that became mixed-up with its own Shirayim or with somebody else's?

(a) What distinction does Rav Chisda make between a piece of Neveilah that became mixed-up with two pieces of Shechutah, and a piece of Shechutah that became mixed-up with two pieces of Neveilah?

(b) What are the ramifications of the distinction?

(c) What is the reason for the difference? On what principle is this ruling based?

(d) Does Rav Chisda go after the Mevatel or after the Bateil?

(a) In which basic point does Rebbi Chanina disagree with Rav Chisda? What does he therefore say?

(b) What will Rebbi Chanina therefore hold by ...

  1. ... Neveilah that became mixed-up with Shechutah?
  2. ... Shechutah that became mixed-up with Neveilah?
(c) What problem do we have with this, according to the opinion of ...
  1. ... the Rabbanan?
  2. ... Rebbi Yehudah?
(d) How do we know that Rebbi Yehudah does not consider 'Efshar Lih'yos Kamohu' a criterion to determine 'Miyn be'Miyno'?
Answers to questions



(a) So we establish the current Sugya like Rebbi Chiya.
What did Rebbi Chiya quote a Beraisa as saying about Neveilah and Shechutah?

(b) How do Rebbi Chanina and Rav Chisda now argue over what the Beraisa means?

(c) What problem do we have with this? Why can Rebbi Chiya not go like ...

  1. ... the Rabbanan?
  2. ... Rebbi Yehudah (initially, at least)?
(d) How do we then establish Rebbi Chiya like Rebbi Yehudah?
(a) This goes well with Rebbi Chanina, since (in the Mishnah in Zevachim [the source of the Machlokes between Rebbi Yehudah and the Rabbanan]) Kodshim can become like Chulin.
How is that possible?

(b) What is the problem, according to Rav Chisda?

(c) To answer this Kashya, how will Rav Chisda explain the Mishnah in Zevachim 'Nis'arev be Dam Beheimah ... '?

(a) We learned in our Mishnah that if two Menachos became mixed-up, if one cannot take a Kemitzah from each one, they are Pasul (even if it is possible to take from one of them).
Why can the author not be the Rabbanan?

(b) Assuming that one did take a Kemitzah from one of them, what would now constitute the Bateil, and what the Mevatel?

(a) Why, in the current case, is there no problem according to Rebbi Chanina?

(b) What is the problem, according to Rav Chisda? What prompts us to propose that the author of our Mishnah cannot be (the Tana of) Rebbi Chiya?

(c) We reject this proposition however, based on a statement of Rebbi Zeira. What was Rebbi Zeira referring to when he learned a 'Gezeirah-Shavah' Haktarah be'Shirayim from Haktarah be'Kometz?

(d) How does that reinstate the possibility of our Mishnah going like Rebbi Chiya?

(a) We also learned in our Mishnah that in a case where a Kometz became mixed-up with a Minchah from which the Kometz has not been taken, and that one subsequently burned on the Mizbe'ach, the owner has fulfilled his duty.
Why can the Mishnah then not go like the Rabbanan?

(b) What problem do we have in trying to establish the author as Rebbi Yehudah?

(c) How do we answer ...

  1. ... this Kashya?
  2. ... the equivalent Kashya from the Seifa 'Nis'arev Komtzah be'Shirehah ... , ve'Im Hiktir, Alsah le'Ba'alim'?
(a) Finally, we ask from the Beraisa, which permits a Matzah dough that contains Katzach (poppy-seeds). Assuming that the Katzach is in the majority, what Kashya can we ask from this Beraisa? On whom is the Kashya?

(b) Why is this not a problem according to Rebbi Chanina?

(c) How do we refute the Kashya on Rav Chisda?

(d) How do we extrapolate this from the Lashon of the Beraisa?

Answers to questions

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