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Menachos 11

MENACHOS 11 (21 Tishrei, Hoshana Raba) - dedicated by Gedalyah Jawitz of Wantagh, N.Y., honoring the Yahrtzeit of his father, Yehuda ben Simcha Volf Jawitz.


(a) Having taught us that ...
  1. ... a pebble in the Kometz invalidates it, why did our Mishnah find it necessary to add 'a grain of salt'?
  2. ... a grain of salt invalidates it, why did the Tana then need to add 'a particle of Levonah'?
(b) Seeing as a Kometz that contains a grain of Levonah is Pasul (because it is Chaser), how can the Kohen avoid finding grains of Levonah in it?

(c) When was the Kometz salted?

(d) Why did the Tana not begin with 'a particle of Levonah', in which case he could have omitted the pebble and the salt altogether?

(a) The Mishnah disqualifies a Kometz which contains a pebble ... because it is 'Yeser'.
What alternative reason could it have given?

(b) To explain why the Tana chose the reason of 'Yeser', Rebbi Yirmiyah says 'min ha'Tzad'.
What does he mean by that?

(c) Why does he refer to it as 'min ha'Tzad'? How was the Kemitzah taken?

(d) When Abaye asked Rava how the Kohen performed Kemitzah, the latter replied 'ke'de'Kamtzi Inshi' (like people do).
What did he mean by that?

(a) We query this from a Beraisa however, which lists the names of the five fingers and their meanings (starting from the little finger).
What is the significance of ...
  1. ... the 'Zeres'?
  2. ... the 'Kemitzah'?
  3. ... the 'Amah'?
  4. ... the 'Etzba'?
  5. ... the 'Godel'?
(b) What does 'Lehashvos' mean?

(c) Rav Zutra bar Tuvya Amar Rav briefly described the process.
What did he say

(d) This is corroborated by a Beraisa.
What does the Tana learn from the Pasuk in ...

  1. ... Vayikra "Melo Kumtzo"?
  2. ... Tzav "Ve'heirim mimenu be'Kumtzo"?
(a) In which way did the Minchah al ha'Machavas and the Minchas Marcheshes differ from a plain Minchas So'les?

(b) How did the Kohen then perform the Kemitzah there?

(c) On what grounds do we query the Beraisa's statement that the Kemitzah was the most difficult Avodah in the Beis-Hamikdash?

(d) So how do we amend it?

(a) What did Rav Papa mean when he said 'M'lo Kumtzo ke'de'Kamtzi Inshi'?

(b) And what did he then mean when he asked what the Din will be if the Kohen performed the Kemitzah ...

  1. ... 'be'Roshei Etzbe'osav'?
  2. ... 'min ha'Tzedadin'?
  3. ... 'mi'Matah le'Ma'alah'?
(c) The Kohen Gadol performs the Chafinah (taking the handful of Ketores) on Yom Kipur in the same way as the Kemitzah. Rav Papa asked the same three She'eilos as he asked in connection with the Kemitzah.
Which fourth She'eilah did he ask?

(d) What is the outcome of all these She'eilos?

(a) Rav Papa also asks what the Din will be if the Kohen then sticks the Kometz onto the wall of the K'li Shareis to carry it to the Mizbe'ach.
What might be wrong with that?

(b) And Mar bar Rav Ashi asks what the Din will be if he sticks the Kometz on to the floor of the K'li Shareis, which is upside-down (see Shitah Mekubetzes).
How else might we interpret the She'eilah?

(c) What might be wrong with that?

(a) How much oil and how much Levonah is required for a regular Minchah?

(b) What does our Mishnah say about adding too much, or too little oil or Levonah to the Minchah?

(c) Rebbi Elazar establishes 'Ribah Shamnah' as two Login of oil. How do we initially interpret that?

(d) And we infer from Rebbi Elazar that Shemen of Chulin or Shemen of another Minchah will not disqualify it.
What problem does Rav Zutra bar Tuvya have with this concerning a Minchas Chotei, which we know can become Pasul through the oil?

(a) So how do we finally establish Rebbi Elazar? What did he really mean when he said 'K'gon she'Hifrish Sh'nei Lugin'?

(b) Why might we have thought otherwise?

(c) Rava explains that Rebbi Elazar actually extrapolates this from our Mishnah ('Ribah Shamnah').
What does this imply? What ought the Tana to have otherwise said?

Answers to questions



(a) According to Rebbi Yehudah, 'Levonah she'Chasrah' constitutes less than two particles remaining at the time of the Haktarah.
What does Rebbi Shimon say?

(b) On whom are we asking, when we cite the Beraisa 'Kometz u'Levonah (or Kometz Levonah) she'Chasar Kol-Shehu, Pasul'?

(c) How do we amend the Beraisa?

(d) How might we otherwise resolve the discrepancy, even without amending the text?

(a) We just cited the Machlokes Tana'im, who argue over whether two particles of Levonah must remain for the Minchah to be Kasher (Rebbi Yehudah) or only one (Rebbi Shimon).
Rebbi Yitzchak bar Yosef Amar Rebbi Yochanan cites a third opinion.
What does Rebbi Meir hold?

(b) From where does Rebbi Yochanan learn this?

(c) In which point do all three Tana'im agree?

(d) All three Darshen from the same Pasuk in Tzav "ve'es Kol ha'Levonah Asher al ha'Minchah".
How does ...

  1. ... Rebbi Meir interpret the Pasuk?
  2. ... Rebbi Yehudah explain "Kol ha'Levonah"? From where does he learn the second particle?
  3. ... Rebbi Shimon interpret it? In which point does he disagree with Rebbi Yehudah?
(a) According to Rebbi Yitzchak bar Yosef Amar Rebbi Yochanan, the above Machlokes Tana'im is confined to Levonah which is brought together with a Minchah.
What will even Rebbi Yehudah and Rebbi Shimon learn from the Pasuk "ve'es Kol ha'Levonah *Asher al ha'Minchah*"?

(b) And what does Rebbi Yochanan say about the Levonah that comes in the Bazichin?

(c) What makes us think that this is obvious?

(d) Why in fact, is it not so obvious?

(e) Rebbi Ami and Rebbi Yitzchak Nafcha argue over Rebbi Yochanan's original statement. One of them holds like him.
What does the other one say?

(a) Our Mishnah invalidates 'Chiser Levonasah', implying that 'Yatir Levonasah' is Kasher.
How does Rami bar Chama reconcile this with the Beraisa that invalidates it?

(b) Rami bar Chama goes on to discuss someone who designated two Kematzim of Levonah for his Minchah, and one of them got lost.
What distinction does he draw between whether it got lost before the Kemitzah or after it?

(c) Alternatively, when Rami bar Chama says 'K'gon she'Hifrish Lah Sh'nei Kematzim', he is referring to the Beraisa.
What is his reason?

(d) In that case, how will we explain the distinction that he makes in the following case, between whether one of the Kematzim got lost before the Kemitzah or after it?

(a) And what similar distinction does he draw between someone who designated four Bazichei Levonah for the Lechem ha'Panim, where two of them got lost, between whether they got lost before the Siluk Bazichin and after it?

(b) The latter ruling appears to be an obvious extension of the first. What is Rami bar Chama coming to teach us?

(c) Which stage would we then consider 'Higi'a Zemanah'?

Answers to questions

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