ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Zevachim 84
ZEVACHIM 84 (4 Elul) - dedicated l'Iluy Nishmas Chaim Yissachar (ben Yaakov)
Smulewitz of Cleveland on his Yahrzeit, by his children, Moish Smulevitz,
Jeri Turkel, Marcia Weinblatt and families.
(a) Discussing the differences between the Tana'im of our Mishnah and those
of the Beraisa, Resh Lakish says 'Minchah ha'Ba'ah bi'Fenei Atzmah,
le'Divrei Kulan Lo Teired'. 'Kulan' refers to - Raban Gamliel, Rebbi
Yehoshua and Rebbi Shimon.
(b) Rebbi Yossi Hagelili and Rebbi Akiva hold - 'Teired'.
(c) We have already discussed 'Minchah ha'Ba'ah Im ha'Zevach', where Raban
Gamliel and Rebbi Yehoshua both agree 'Lo Teired'. When Resh Lakish says
'le'Divrei Kulan Teired', he is referring to - Rebbi Yossi Hagelili, Rebbi
Akiva and Rebbi Shimon.
(a) According to Resh Lakish, in a case of Nesachim ha'Ba'im bi'Fenei
Atzman, Raban Gamliel and Rebbi Shimon rule 'Lo Yerdu' - because Nesachim go
on the Mizbe'ach and because they are independent, respectively.
(b) 'Kulan' say - 'Yerdu'.
(c) With regard to Nesachim ha'Ba'im Im ha'Zevach, the opinion of ...
1. ... Kulan is - 'Im Alu, Yerdu'.
2. ... Raban Gamliel is - 'Lo Yerdu'.
(a) Given each Tana's source, all the above are obvious, and Resh Lakish is
coming to teach us Rava's Chidush. Rava said - that anyone may volunteer to
bring a Minchas Nesachim (which is entirely burnt) on its own .
(b) The problem with Resh Lakish's lengthy statement is - why (bearing in
mind that he lived long before Rava) he did not just teach us Rava's ruling.
(c) We learn from the Pasuk "Minchasam ve'Niskeihem" - that one may bring
the Minchas Nesachim of a Korban at night or on the following day.
(d) Consequently, he found it necessary to include the other cases, to teach
us that, in the case of Nesachim ha'Ba'ah Im ha'Zevach, even though one is
permitted to bring the Nesech independently of the Korban, it is still
considered secondary to it (and according to Rebbi Shimon, 'Im Alah,
(a) Our Mishnah rules that Lan, Yotze, Tamei, and Nishchat Chutz li'Zemano
ve'Chutz li'Mekomo - 'Im Alu, Lo Yerdu'.
(b) Lan refers - both to the Dam and to the Eimurim.
(c) The two cases the Tana includes in his list are - 'Kiblu Pesulim
ve'Zarku es Daman'.
(a) Rebbi Yehudah rules that Nishchat ba'Laylah, Nishpach Damah and Yatza
Damah Chutz li'Kela'im' - 'Im Alu, Yerdu'.
(b) Rebbi Shimon agrees with the Tana Kama. According to him, whatever is
'Pesulo ba'Kodesh' - (i.e. if the P'sul took place after the animal entered
the Azarah) is included in 'Lo Yerdu' (see Shitah Mekubetzes).
(c) He includes 'Rovei'a, Nirva, Muktzah Ne'evad ... and Ba'alei Mumin in
the list of 'Lo Hayu Pesulan ba'Kodesh'.
(a) Rebbi Akiva disagrees - with Ba'alei Mumin (as we will explain in the
(b) Rebbi Chanina S'gan ha'Kohanim - concurs with Rebbi Shimon regarding
(c) The Tana rules that if those P'sulin that 'Im Alu, Lo Yerdu' ...
1. ... were inadvertently taken down - 'Lo Ya'alu'.
(d) Rebbi Yehudah learns from the Pasuk ''Zos ... Hi ha'Olah" -
(incorporating three 'Mi'utin' [since the 'Hey' of ha'Olah also comes to
exclude]) that Nishchatah ba'Laylah, Nishpach Damah and Yatza Damah ... 'Im
2. ... ascended when they were still alive to the top of the Mizbe'ach -
3. ... were Shechted on top of the Mizbe'ach - they must be skinned, and cut
into pieces there.
(a) Based on "Toras ha'Olah" (in the same Pasuk) - Rebbi Shimon incorporates
Rebbi Yehudah's three cases in the list of 'Im Alu, Lo Yerdu' ...
(b) ... as he does 'ha'Nitnin Lematah she'Nasnan Lema'alah and vice-versa,
ha'Nitnin ba'Chutz she'Nasnan bi'Fenim and vice-versa and Pesach ve'Chatas
she'Shachtan she'Lo li'Sheman.
(c) Whereas from "Zos" - he learns the list of 'Im Alu, Yerdu' in our
(d) He includes those in the first list, and excludes those in the second -
on the basis of the S'vara that the former fall into the category of
'Pesulan ba'Kodesh', whereas the latter do not.
(a) Rebbi Yehudah holds 'Lan be'Dam Kasher', because Lan be'Eimurin is
Kasher, and 'Lan be'Eimurin Kasher' - because Lan be'Basar is Kasher.
(b) By 'Lan be'Basar', he means - Basar Shelamim which can be eaten for two
days and the night in between.
(c) And he says 'Lo Yerdu' in the case of ...
1. ... Yotzei - because Yotzei is Kasher by a Bamah.
2. ... Tamei" - because Tamei is Kasher by a Tzibur.
3. ... Chutz li'Zemano - because it brings Pigul into effect.
4. ... Chutz li'Mekomo - because it is compared to 'Chutz li'Zemano'.
(a) When Rebbi Yehudah declares Yotzei, Kasher, he is referring to - the
limbs of an Olah and the Eimurin of other Kodshim.
(b) We know that he is not referring to Dam - which is one of the three
things that he rendered Pasul from "Zos ... Hi ha'Olah".
(c) He prefers to invalidate the Eimurei Kodshim rather than Nishchat Chutz
li'Zemano - because the latter causes Pigul to take effect, as we just
(a) We object however, to learning 'Lan be'Eimurim' from 'Lan be'Basar', and
'Yotzei de'Mikdash' from 'Yotzei de'Bamah' - because one cannot learn
something which is Pasul from something which is Kasher Lechatchilah.
(b) We answer that the above D'rashos are indeed insufficient on their own -
and that we therefore rely on the Pasuk "Zos Toras ha'Olah" (which indicates
that whatever goes on the Mizbe'ach, is not taken down), before applying