ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Zevachim 21
ZEVACHIM 21-23 - Sponsored by a generous grant from an anonymous donor.
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(a) The Torah writes in Tzav "Ve'rachatzu Aharon u'Vanav *Mimenu* es
Yedeihem ve'es Ragleihem", giving rise to the She'eilah - whether "Mimenu",
should be taken literally to mean *from* it (but not *in* it), or whether it
is 'La'av Davka' (and incorporates both connotations).
(b) We already cited the Beraisa which disqualifies Kidush that is made in a
pool in a cave. Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak attempts to resolve the She'eilah
from there - because it implies that the same immersion in the Kiyor would
(c) In fact, we retort, even assuming that Kidush inside the Kiyor is not
valid either, the Tana might prefer to mention 'Mei Me'arah' - to teach us
that despite the fact that his immersion in the pool is a valid Tevilah
(which is not the case in the Kiyor, as we shall now see), it is not valid
as Kidush Yadayim ve'Raglayim.
(d) Tevilah in the Kiyor would not be valid - because it is 'Mayim She'uvim'
(drawn water), which cannot be used as a Mikvah.
(a) The limbs of a Korban become Pasul be'Linah, at dawn-break, whereas
blood that has not been sprinkled becomes Pasul - at sunset (nightfall).
(b) When Rebbi Chiya bar Rebbi Yosef says 'Mei Kiyor Nifsalin ...
1. ... le'Matirin ke'Matirin', he means - that the water of the Kiyor
becomes Pasul to be used for Avodos that are Matir (i.e. before sprinkling
the blood or burning the Kometz [which are called 'Matir' because they
permit the Korban to be brought and eaten]) already at nightfall (just like
the blood or the Kometz for which the Kohen made Kidush, does).
(c) If they lowered the Kiyor before nightfall, and brought it up during the
night, Rebbi Chiya bar Yosef renders the water ...
2. ... le'Evarim ke'Evarim', he means - that if the Kidush is for burning
the pieces of the Korban on the Mizbe'ach, then it only becomes Pasul in the
morning (be'Linah [like the pieces of flesh for which the Kohen made
(d) According to Rav Chisda - either way, the Mei Kiyor only becomes Pasul
in the morning.
- 1. ... Kasher for Avodas Laylah (Haktoras Evarim, which is not a Matir) but
- 2. ... Pasul (immediately) for Avodas Yom.
(a) Rebbi Yochanan says 'Kiyor, Keivan she'Shak'u Shuv Ein Ma'aleihu' -
which we at first think means that, after nightfall, the Kohen may not even
bring up the Kiyor to use the water for the night Avodah (arguing with both
Rebbi Chiya b'Rebbi Yosef and Rav Chisda).
(b) We repudiate this however, with a statement by Rebbi Ami Amar Rebbi
Yochanan in the name of Ilfa that we already cited earlier 'Kiyor she'Lo
Shak'u mi'ba'Erev Mekadesh Mimenu la'Avodas Laylah' (i.e. Hekter Chalavim).
So we explain his previous statement to mean - that it is forbidden to bring
up the Kiyor for the day Avodah, but not for the night Avodah.
(c) Bearing in mind that this statement follows that of Rebbi Chiya b'Rebbi
Yosef and Rav Chisda the problem is - that he then seems to mimic Rebbi
Chiya b'rei de'Rav Yosef (who also forbids bringing up the Kiyor for the day
(a) We answer by establishing Rebbi Yochanan by 'Gezeiras Shiku'a' - meaning
that when Rebbi forbids bringing up the Kiyor, it is not because its water
is intrinsically Pasul for the day Avodah, but because of a decree in case
the Kohanim subsequently forget to lower it again before dawn-break ...
(b) ... whereas according to Rebbi Chiya b'rei de'Rav Yosef - the water is
intrinsically Pasul for the morning Avodah.
(c) And we can prove this from their respective Leshonos - since Rebbi Chiya
b'rei de'Rav Yosef uses the word 'Nifsalin', whereas Rebbi Yochanan simply
says 'Ein Ma'alin' (a Lashon of Isur, but not of P'sul).
(a) Earlier, we cited Rebbi Yochanan, who exempts a Kohen who made Kidush
for the Terumas ha'Deshen, from having to make Kidush again in the morning.
The reason that he permits raising the Kiyor for Avodas Yom - is because,
seeing as the Kohen who performs the Terumas ha'Deshen, has to make Kidush
Yadayim ... , there is no other option.
(b) Nor were the Chachamim afraid of 'Gezeiras Shiku'a' - because, since it
is so close to the next day, and there are unlikely to be any other Kohanim
who will need it for the night Avodah, whoever raised the Kiyor, is bound
remember to lower it again.
(c) The problem with Rebbi Yochanan quoting Ilfa is - why, bearing in mind
his current statement of 'Gezeiras Shiku'a', he says nothing there about
lowering the Kiyor back into the stream.
(d) However, this is only a problem according to Abaye, who establishes the
earlier statement of Rebbi Yochanan quoting Ilfa like Rebbi, but not
according to Rava, who establishes it like Rebbi Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon
(according to whom there is no Linah by a Kohen [and presumably, not by the
Mei Kiyor either]) - because he will then establish the current statement of
Rebbi Yochanan like Rebbi (who holds that there is Linah, which explains why
the Gezeirah-Shavah of Shiku'a applies).
(a) The problem with Rebbi Yochanan quoting Ilfa, according to Abaye is -
that seeing as he goes according to Rebbi, who holds of Linah (as we
explained earlier), why did he not mention the obligation to lower the Kiyor
back into the stream after the Kidush.
(b) We cannot answer like we answered earlier, that Rebbi concedes that
there is no Linah from the call to do the Avodah until morning - because
unlike the P'sul Linah of the Kohen, which is de'Rabbanan (as we explained
there), the P'sul Linah of the Mei Kiyor is d'Oraysa) and not subject to the
(c) We answer this Kashya by ascribing the fact that Rebbi Yochanan quoting
Ilfa did not mention the obligation to lower the Kiyor again (not to a
deliberate omission, but) - to the fact that Rebbi Yochanan is coming to
teach us the Din of Kidush according to Rebbi, and that he is not concerned
with the Din of the Kiyor.
(d) Even though, as we just explained, Rebbi Yochanan agrees that, after the
Kidush for the Terumas ha'Deshen, they would lower the Kiyor back into the
stream, he nevertheless goes on to say 'le'Machar Eino Mekadesh' - because
what he really means is 'Eino Tzarich Le'kadesh' (as we explained above).
(a) Even though Rebbi Yochanan holds that night-time does not intrinsically
invalidate the water of the Kiyor, he differs from Rav Chisda (who argues
with Rebbi Chiya b'Rebbi Yosef over that very point) - in that he holds of
'Gezeiras Shiku'a', whereas Rav Chisda does not.
(b) This does not mean that Rav Chisda does not require the Kiyor to be
submerged at all, because if that were so, how would one prevent the Mei
Kiyor from becoming Pasul be'Linah in the morning? Only that, according to
him, it will suffice to submerge it shortly before dawn-break.
(c) The Beraisa explains that the Kohanim, who were still in the Beis
Hamokad, could not see the Kohen who entered the Azarah to make Kidush
Yadayim ve'Raglayim and to perform the Terumas ha'Deshen - because he did
not take a torch with him, walking by the light of the Ma'arachah (the fire
burning on the Mizbe'ach).
(d) They were aroused to prepare for the next Avodah - (clearing the ashes
from the Ma'arachah, as we learned earlier), when they heard the (very
noisy) Muchni (the wooden wheel and pulley system that ben Katin had
specially constructed for this purpose).
(a) Assuming that what they heard was the Kiyor being drawn up from the
stream, we try to prove from there - that it had to be lowered into the
stream at the onset of night (a Kashya on Rav Chisda, who holds that this is
(b) We initially object to the answer that what they heard was the Kiyor
being lowered into the stream (like Rav Chisda) - on the grounds that to
lower the Kiyor into the stream would not require turning the wheel (which
was the main source of he noise), since the weight of the Kiyor would cause
it to drop into the stream with not much more than a splash.
(c) We override this objection - by establishing that what they heard was
indeed the Kiyor being lowered into the stream - which was deliberately done
by unwinding the pulley, to induce the wooden wheel to make a noise and
arouse the Kohanim to come and participate in the lots.
(a) Gevini K'ruz was - the man who would announce in a loud, booming voice
'Rise Kohanim to do your Avodah, Levi'im, to your Duchan (the place where
they sang) and Yisrael, to your Ma'amad (to stand by the Korban Tzibur).
(b) The Muchni served the same purpose - some heard the one and came, others
heard the other.
(a) The Beraisa - permits using other K'lei Shareis for Kidush Yadayim
(b) The Shiur of water required for ...
1. ... Netilas Yadayim for eating bread is - a Revi'is (ha'Log).
2. ... Kidush Yadayim ve'Raglayim is - even less than a Revi'is.
(c) Rav Ada bar Ahavah reconciles this with what we learned earlier, that
the Kiyor had to contain at least sufficient water for four Kohanim to wash
simultaneously - by establishing the latter when the Kohen actually washes
from the Kiyor, whereas the current Beraisa speaks when he takes water from
the Kiyor with a small K'li Shareis (see Tosfos DH 'Kode'ach').
(d) We query the Beraisa from the word "Mimenu", which implies that the
Kohanim must wash from the Kiyor, and not from any other receptacle, and we
answer - that the otherwise redundant word "Yirchatzu" comes to include
other K'lei Shareis.