ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Zevachim 8
ZEVACHIM 8 - dedicated by Mrs. Rita Grunberger of Queens, N.Y., in loving
memory of her husband, Reb Yitzchok Yakov ben Eliyahu Grunberger. Irving
Grunberger helped many people quietly in an unassuming manner and is dearly
missed by all who knew him. His Yahrzeit is 10 Sivan.
(a) We learn from the Pasuk ...
1. ... "Ve'shachat Osah le'Chatas" - the prohibition of Shechting a Chatas
with Shinuy Kodesh.
(b) We learn Shinuy Ba'alim from "Alav", 've'Lo al Chaveiro'. With regard to
Le'akev (Bedi'eved), we cite Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua, who will learn
later from a similar Pasuk from "Chatas" "Chataso" - that Shinuy Kodesh and
Shinuy Ba'alim there are Pasul even Bedi'eved (as we shall see).
2. ... "Ve'lakach ha'Kohen mi'Dam ha'Chatas" - that the same applies to
3. ... "Ve'chiper Alav ha'Kohen me'Chataso" - that the prohibition extends
to Zerikah, too.
(c) And we know that Holachah she'Lo li'Shemah is also Pasul by a Chatas -
from Kabalah (as we learned above).
(d) We still do not know ...
1. ... that any of the Avodos are Pasul Bedi'eved with regard to Shinuy
2. ... anything other than Zerikah Lechatchilah with regard to Shinuy
(a) Rebbi Yonah learns from the Pasuk "Ve'asah es Chataso ve'es Olaso" -
that all the Avodos of a Chatas Nazir need to be performed without Shinuy
Kodesh (which renders the Korban Pasul even Bedi'eved) ...
(b) ... since we already know Lechatchilah from the Pesukim that we just
(c) And Rav Huna b'Rei de'Rav Yehoshua learns from "Chatas" "Chataso" - that
Zerikah is Pasul even Bedi'eved with regard to Shinuy Ba'alim, and so are
all the other Avodos (which, based on the Hekesh to Shelamim, are compared
to Zerikah, as we explained on the previous Amud).
(a) Ravina asked Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua what he will then learn from
"Olah" "Olaso" (also written by Nazir). He declined to query him from
"Minchas" "Minchaso" and "Nesech" "Nisko", due to a well-known D'rashah in
Pinchas (with regard to the Musaf of Sukos). We Darshen from "Minchasam
ve'Niskeihem" - that even though one is obligated to bring the Musaf on the
specified day, it is permitted to bring the Menachos and the Nesachim that
pertain to it, by night or on the following day.
(b) Likewise, he Darshens "Minchaso" and "Nisko" here - to permit bringing
the Minchah and the Nesech of the Korban Nazir, in the same way (by night or
even on the next day).
(c) And he also asked him how we can possibly learn a Chatas Cheilev and a
Chatas Nazir from each other. The problem is that one cannot learn ...
1. ... a Chatas Cheilev from a Chatas Nazir - which comes with other
Korbanos, whereas a Chatas Cheilev does not (as we explained above).
2. ... a Chatas Nazir from a Chatas Cheilev - which comes for a Chiyuv
Kareis, whilst a Chatas Nazir does not.
(a) So Rava tries to learn the P'sul of Shinuy Kodesh and Shinuy Ba'alim by
Chatas Cheilev from a Chatas Metzora. We learn from the Pasuk ...
1. ... "Ve'asah ha'Kohen es ha'Chatas" - Shinuy Kodesh ('she'Yih'yu Kol
Asiyosav le'Shem Chatas').
(b) These Pesukim must be speaking even Bedi'eved - since we already know
Lechatchilah from the Pesukim that we discussed earlier.
2. ... "Ve'chiper al ha'Mitaher" - Shinuy Ba'alim (al ha'Mitaher Zeh, ve'Lo
al ha'Mitaher Chavero').
(c) We ask - exactly the same two Kashyos on the Limud Chatas Cheilev and
Chatas Metzora from each other, as we asked on the Limud of Chatas Cheilev
and Chatas Nazir.
(a) We therefore try and learn one from two with a 'Mah ha'Tzad'. We cannot
1. ... a Chatas Cheilev from the combination of a Chatas Nazir and a Chatas
Metzora - because they share the unique quality of coming together with
(b) Ultimately, we learn the P'sul of Shinuy Kodesh and Shinuy Ba'alim by a
Chatas Cheilev, a Chatas Nazir and a Chatas Metzora - from the Hekesh to
Shelamim in Tzav.
2. ... a Chatas Nazir from the combination of a Chatas Cheilev and a Chatas
Metzora - because one cannot have either rescinded like a Nazir can.
3. ... a Chatas Metzora from the combination of a Chatas Cheilev and a
Chatas Nazir because, unlike a Metzora, they do not have the option of
bringing birds if they are poor.
(c) And from the Pesukim that we just discussed, we will learn - that they
even render the Korban Pasul Bedi'eved (as we explained with regard to the
(a) The problem with a Chatas Avodas-Kochavim, as well as that of Shemi'as
Kol, Shevu'as Bituy and Tum'as Mikdash ve'Kodashav (of Korban Oleh ve'Yored)
is - that the Torah does not write "le'Chatas" (like it does by Chatas
(b) And we answer that we learn Shinuy Kodesh and Shinuy Ba'alim by ...
1. ... Chatas Avodas-Kochavim - from a 'Mah Matzinu' from Chatas Cheilev,
since both are Chayav Kareis.
(c) We need all three to learn Shevu'as Bituy, because had we tried to learn
it just from Chatas Cheilev and ...
2. ... the other three - from a Mah-ha'Tzad from Chatas Cheilev (which is
brought on its own) and a Chatas Nazir and Metzora (which are not Chayav
1. ... Chatas Nazir - we could have asked that, unlike Shevu'as Bituy, who
can bring a bird (be'Dalus, or even flour, be'Dalei Dalus), they cannot.
2. ... Chatas Metzora - we could have asked that, unlike Shevu'as Bituy,
they cannot have their Neder rescinded.
(a) The Beraisa reiterates the Din in our Mishnah 'Pesach bi'Zemano,
li'Shemo Kasher; she'Lo li'Shemo, Pasul'. The Tana goes on to say 'Pesach
be'Sha'ar Yemos ha'Shanah - li'Shemo Pasul, she'Lo li'Shemo Kasher'.
(b) The Beraisa initially explains the Pasuk in Vayikra "ve'Im min ha'Tzon
Korbano le'Zevach Shelamim la'Hashem" to mean - that if one Shechts a Pesach
(which can only come from 'Tzon') during the rest of the year, it becomes a
Shelamim (and is Kasher).
(c) The Pasuk must be referring to she'Lo bi'Zemano - since we already
learned that bi'Zemano, it is Pasul.
(d) Seeing as this is the source for 'Pesach be'Sha'ar Yemos ha'Shanah,
she'Lo bi'Zemano Kasher', Rebbi Ila Amar Rebbi Yochanan learns that if he
Shechted it as an Olah or a Chatas, it is Kasher, too (despite the fact that
the Torah only mentions Shelamim) - from the word "Zevach".
(a) We just learned that a Pesach that one Shechts as an Olah or a Chatas,
during the year, becomes a Shelamim. We know that it does not become the
Korban that one Shechts it as (an Olah or a Chatas) - because the Torah
writes "Zevach Shelamim" (and not vice-versa), implying that whatever one
Shechts it as, it becomes a Shelamim).
(b) In that case, we ask, let "Zevach" be a 'K'lal' and Shelamim' a
'P'rat' - precluding anything other than a Shelamim from the Halachah of
'she'Lo li'Shemo, Kasher'.
(c) Rebbi Ya'akov from Nehar Pakud points out that the second 'K'lal'
("la'Hashem") has different implications than the first one ("Zevach"), and
that one cannot therefore learn this as a 'K'lal u'P'rat u'K'lal. The basic
difference between the two K'lalim is - whereas "Zevach" is confined to
animal sacrifices, "la'Hashem" implies 'whatever is for Hashem, even bird
offerings and Menachos.
(a) We answer by establishing the Beraisa like Tana de'Bei Rebbi Yishmael -
who Darshens a 'K'lal u'Prat u'K'lal' even under such circumstances (as we
(b) We learn from the 'K'lal u'P'rat u'K'lal' - that any Korban that is
Shechted she'Lo li'Shemo, during the rest of the year, is Kasher ...
(c) ... as a Shelamim.
(d) The problem with learning this as a 'K'lal u'P'rat u'K'lal' is - that we
would only include Korbanos that come as a Neder or Nedavah (such as a
Todah), but would preclude a Chatas or an Asham.
(a) We answer that "Zevach" is not a 'K'lal', but a Ribuy - since it forms
one phrase with "Shelamim" and is basically redundant (unlike a 'K'lal',
which is generally an independent phrase and is not redundant [see also
Tosfos DH 'Ela').
(b) A 'Ribuy' as opposed to a 'K'lal', incorporates everything that it