POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Yevamos 77
YEVAMOS 76, 77 - Dedicated by Eddie and Esther Turkel in prayer for
a Refu'ah Shelemah to Yitzchak ben Lanah. May the Talmud Torah
d'Rabim sponsored in his honor protect him and gain him a full
and speedy recovery.
1) IS A MOAVIS PERMITTED?
(a) Doeg asked as above; they were silent. Doeg was about to
announce that David was forbidden.
2) THE DAUGHTER OF A CONVERTED AMONI
(b) Question: "Amasha, the son of a man, whose name is Yisra
ha'Yisraeli, that had relations with Avigayil Bas
Nachash"; elsewhere, he is called "Yisra ha'Yishmaeli"!
(c) Answer (Rava): This teaches that he girded his sword as a
Yishmaeli, and said, whoever does not accept this law,
will be pierced with a sword: 'I learned from Shmuel, an
Amoni is forbidden, not an Amonis; a Moavi, not a Moavis.
(d) Question: Is one really believed to teach a law in such a
1. (R. Aba): A Chacham that taught a law before a case
came up, we heed him; if he did not teach it until
the case came up, we do not heed him.
(e) Answer: Yisra was believed, since Shmuel and his Beis Din
were around (the law was easily verifiable).
(f) The question remains (the women should have gone out to
greet the women!)
(g) Answer #1: The honor of the king's daughter is (to stay)
(h) Answer #2 (Chachamim of Eretz Yisrael): "They said to
him, where is your wife Sarah?" (it is praiseworthy that
she stayed in the tent).
(i) The following Tana'im also argued on the source that a
Moavis is permitted.
1. (Beraisa - R. Yehudah): An Amoni is forbidden, not
an Amonis; a Moavi, not a Moavis; R. Shimon says,
"Because they did not go out ..." - it is the way of
a man ...
(j) (Rava): "You opened my binds" - David said to Hash-m, 2
binds which were on me, you opened - Rus the Moavis, and
Na'ama the Amonis.
(k) (Rava): "... Your wonders and thoughts are upon us" - not
1. This teaches, Rechavam sat in David's lap, and David
told him that these 2 verses were said for me and
(l) (Rava): "Then I said, I have come; it is written in a
Sefer about me" - David said, when I was anointed, I
thought that my grandeur was just starting; I did not
realize, it was already written in the Torah about me.
1. "(Lot's daughters) that were found"; and it says, "I
found David my servant".
(a) (Ula, citing R. Yochanan): The daughter of a converted
Amoni may marry a Kohen.
(b) Question (Rava Bar Ula): Who is this as?
1. Suggestion #1: If as R. Yehudah - but he says, the
daughter of a convert is like the daughter of a
(c) Suggestion (Rava Bar Ula): Perhaps your law was by an
Amoni that married a Bas Yisrael - even though relations
are forbidden, the daughter may marry a Kohen.
2. Suggestion #2: If as R. Yosi, the law is obvious -
he says that even the daughter of 2 converts may
marry a Kohen!
i. Suggestion: If you will say, this only applies
to converts that may marry Yisraelim, but not
converts that are forbidden - what is the
source to make such a distinction?
ii. Answer: He learns from the child of a Kohen
Gadol from a widow.
iii. Objection: We cannot learn from there - it is
forbidden for them to have relations!
iv. Answer: The child of a Chalal shows that the
children can be forbidden even when they were
conceived in a permitted way!
v. Objection: We cannot learn from a Chalal, since
he himself was conceived through sin!
vi. Answer: A Kohen Gadol will prove that this is
not needed to make the children forbidden.
A. We may learn from a Tzad ha'Shaveh (common
side). Each case (Kohen Gadol and Chalal) has
something not found in the other - what us
common, is that they are unlike the majority of
the congregation, and their daughters are
forbidden to Kohanim - we may learn that this
is also true of the daughter of an Amoni!
vii. Rejection: We cannot learn - both a Kohen Gadol
and Chalal are cases involving sin (but there
is no such side by an Amoni's daughter)!
(d) Answer (Ula): Correct! The following shows that R.
Yochanan spoke in such a case.
(e) (Ravin, citing R. Yochanan): The daughter of a converted
Amoni or 2nd generation Mitzri is permitted (to a Kohen);
Reish Lakish says, she is forbidden.
1. Reish Lakish learns from a Kohen Gadol and a widow.
2. R. Yochanan says she is permitted.
3) IS A MITZRIS FORBIDDEN?
(f) Question: What are the 2 nations?
i. R. Zachai taught in front of R. Yochanan: "He
will marry a virgin from his nations" - this
includes a convert Mechunah (whose parents come
from the same nation).
ii. Version #1: R. Yochanan: I learn, "His nations
- from his nations" to permit a virgin that
comes from 2 nations, and you only learn
1. Suggestion: If an Amoni that married an Amonis -
these are considered 2 nations because the men are
permitted and the women are forbidden - but this is
as R. Zachai!
(g) Answer: Rather, it is an Amoni that married a Bas
(h) Version #2: R. Yochanan responded, 'I learn, "His nations
- from his nations" to permit a virgin that comes from 2
nations, and from a nation that has in it 2 nations, and
you only learn Mechunah?!
(i) Question: According to this version - how does R.
Yochanan learn that the daughter of a 2nd generation
Mitzri is permitted?
1. Suggestion: He learns from an Amoni that married a
(j) (Rav Yosef): I had heard Rav Yehudah say, "His nations -
from his nations", and I did not understand - (now, I
2. Objection: But there, the females are permitted!
i. Suggestion: We see from the case of a 2nd
generation Mitzri that married a 2nd generation
Mitzris, that the child is permitted, even
though females (Mitzriyos) are forbidden - this
proves, this factor is irrelevant!
ii. Objection: But there, relations are permitted!
iii. Answer: The case of an Amoni that married a Bas
Yisrael proves that even when relations are
forbidden, the child is permitted ... (we learn
from a Tzad ha'Shaveh).
(k) (Rav Shmuel Bar Yehudah): R. Zachai taught this in front
of R. Yochanan: 'An Amonis is permitted, her son from an
Amoni is forbidden, her daughter from an Amoni is
1. This applies after they converted; but her daughter
from an Amoni is forbidden'.
(l) R. Yochanan: Leave the Beis Medrash!
1. I agree, an Amonis is permitted - Amoni, not an
2. I also agree, her son from an Amoni is forbidden,
since he is an Amoni.
3. Question: You said, 'Her daughter from an Amoni is
permitted' - to whom?
i. Suggestion: If to Yisrael - her mother is
permitted, all the more so the daughter!
4. Answer: Rather, to a Kohen.
5. Question: You said, 'This applies after they
converted; but her daughter from an Amoni is
forbidden' - to what does this refer?
i. Suggestion: If an Amoni that married an Amonis
- that is a convert Mechunah!
6. Answer: Rather, an Amoni that married a Bas Yisrael
- leave the Beis Medrash!
(a) (Mishnah): A Mitzri or Edomi is only forbidden ...
(b) Question: How do Chachamim challenge his Kal v'Chomer?
(c) Answer #1 (Rabah Bar Bar Chanah): Arayos disproves the
Kal v'Chomer - they are only forbidden until 3
generations, and males and females are forbidden!
1. Question: This is not a challenge - Arayos are
(d) Answer #2: Rather, Chachamim ask from a Chalal which
results from Chaivei Ase, as R. Eliezer Ben Yakov.
2. Answer: We see that even female Mamzerim are
forbidden, even though they are not Chaivei Krisus!
3. Question: You cannot learn from Mamzerim - they are
4. Answer: We learn from a Tzad ha'Shaveh - by Arayos
and Mamzerim, both males and females are forbidden -
the same applies to Mitzrim.
5. Objection: The Tzad ha'Shaveh is invalid, since both
sources involve Chaivei Krisus.
(e) Question: What did R. Shimon answer, 'No, rather...'?
(f) Answer: 'I do not hold as R. Eliezer Ben Yakov; you that
hold as him - I received my law on tradition'.
(g) (Beraisa - R. Shimon): - I received my law on tradition;
also, the verse supports me - "Sons" - and not daughters.
(h) (Beraisa - R. Shimon): "Sons" - and not daughters; R.
Yehudah says, "Children that will be born to them, the
3rd generation..." - the verse ascribes (the prohibition)
to birth (to the mother - if she is permitted, so are her
(i) (R. Yochanan): If R. Yehudah did not say, the verse
ascribes to birth, he could not defend himself.
1. R. Yehudah holds that converts are part of the
congregation of Yisrael - if a Mitzris is permitted,
whom will a Mitzri Sheni (a 2nd generation Mitzri)
marry to purify his seed?!