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prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Ta'anis 13


(a) We learn the order of a Ta'anis Tzibur from Nechemyah.
What were the people coming to tell him in the course of the morning that left him in a daze?

(b) How did he react?

(c) What is the meaning of "u've'Minchas ha'Erev Kamti mi'Ta'aneisi"? Does this mean that after Minchah he stopped fasting?

(a) Rafram bar Papa Amar Rav Chisda forbids washing with water both on Tish'ah be'Av and when one is an Aveil, and on a Ta'anis Tzibur.
Why are the former forbidden even with *cold* water, and the latter only when the water is *warm*?

(b) Rav Idi bar Avin proved that one may wash in cold water on a Ta'anis Tzibur from our Mishnah, which says 've'No'alin es ha'Merchetza'os'.
On what grounds did Abaye reject that proof?

(c) How did Rav Idi's son Rav Shisha explain his father's proof, refuting Abaye's Kashya in the process?

(a) We try to prove Rav Chisda right from the Beraisa, which permits someone who is Chayav Tevilah to Tovel on Tish'ah be'Av and on Yom Kipur (because it is a Mitzvah to Tovel immediately).
How do we know that the Tana is not referring to Toveling in *warm* water?

(b) Then how do we set out to prove Rav Chisda right from there?

(c) We reject this proof by suggesting that the Tana is referring to the hot-springs of Teverya. Then why does Rebbi Chanina S'gan ha'Kohanim forbid Tevilah on the grounds that 'the House of our G-d deserves that we lose one Tevilah on its account'? Why could one not Tovel in *cold* water?

(a) The Beraisa permits *work* on the night of a Ta'anis Tzibur.
What does Rashi comment on this with regard to Tish'ah be'Av?

(b) What concession does the Tana of the Beraisa make regarding ...

  1. ... the *wearing of shoes* on a Ta'anis Tzibur?
  2. ... *washing oneself*?
(c) The Beraisa adds that the same applies to an Aveil and a Menudeh (someone in Cheirem).
Assuming that this refers to all three concessions, what Kashya do we ask from there on Rav Chisda (who forbids an Aveil to wash even in cold water)? Why can the Tana not be talking about washing in *hot* water?

(d) We conclude that the Beraisa is, in fact, speaking about washing in hot water.
How do we then answer the Kashya from Aveil and Menudeh?

(a) In view of Rafram Amar Rav Chisda, how do we explain the fact that, when Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Chanina's sons died, he bathed in cold water all seven days?

(b) The Beraisa also permits cutting one's hair and washing one's clothes under such circumstances.
What restrictions apply to ...

  1. ... cutting one's hair?
  2. ... washing one's clothes?
Answers to questions


6) On what grounds does Rava (in the first Lashon) permit an Aveil to bathe in cold water all seven days?


(a) What is the difference between a 'Na'arah' and a 'Bogeres'?

(b) A Bogeres is forbidden to walk around looking ugly when she is in mourning for her father, whereas a Na'arah is obligated to do so.
Why is that?

(c) Assuming that the Beraisa is referring to the prohibition of bathing, is the Tana speaking about bathing in hot or cold water? How does that create a Kashya on Rava?

(d) If the Tana is not talking about washing, then what *is* he talking about?

(a) Why is there no proof for Rava from Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Chanina, who bathed for the seven nights following the death of his sons?

(b) In the second Lashon, Rava forbids an Aveil to bathe even in cold water, all seven days.
Why is this any different than eating meat and drinking wine, which are permitted?

(c) Why is there no proof for Rava from the Beraisa, which permits a Na'arah to walk around looking ugly?

(d) What does Rav Chisda derive from there with regard to an Aveil washing clothes?

(a) We conclude that an Aveil is forbidden to bathe, even in cold water.
Does this mean that he is prohibited from washing at all in cold water?

(b) What is the Din regarding anointing?

(a) Rav Yehudah told his son rav Yiztchak that a Yachid who fasts inserts Birchas 'Aneinu' between 'Go'eil and 'Rofei'.
On what grounds do we query this?

(b) What did Rav Yitzchak (or Rav Yosef) therefore conclude?

(a) The Beraisa differentiates between a Yachid who is fasting (who says eighteen Berachos) and a Tzibur (who says nineteen).
What does this mean?

(b) What makes us initially establish the Reisha of the Beraisa by a Yachid who undertakes to fast a Ta'anis Yachid, and the Seifa by a Yachid who undertakes to fast a Ta'anis Tzibur? Why can the Seifa not be speaking about a Tzibur on a regular Ta'anis Tzibur (for rain)?

(c) Why is this a Kashya on Rav Yitzchak and Rav Yehudah B'rei de'Rav Yitzchak (in question 10)?

(d) How do we answer the Kashya by nevertheless establishing the Beraisa by a regular Ta'anis Tzibur (for rain)?

(a) We query the previous answer on the basis of the Lashon of the Beraisa which (using the Lashon 'Ein Bein') writes that the only difference between the first set of fasts and the second set is regarding the prohibition of work (but not regarding the twenty-four Berachos of the Amidah). Besides the argument that 'Ein Bein' is not necessarily exclusive, how do we reject this argument?

(b) We nevertheless refute that argument on the grounds that the Tana is concerned with the prohibitions of the fast-days, not with the Tefilos. What is the Gemara's second refutation?

(c) What are the only two differences between the second set of three fasts and the third set of seven given by the Tana of the Beraisa (again using the Lashon 'Ein Bein')?

(d) Even assuming that 'Ein Bein' is not exclusive (a point of which the Sugya is uncertain), why can we not say that the Tana can safely omit the difference between eighteen Berachos and twenty-four, seeing as it anyway omits the difference that on the *third* set of fasts they took the Aron out into the street, but not on the *second*? (Note: We are currently querying the *second* Lashon dealt with in the previous question, which does not agree with the contention that the Tana is only concerned with the prohibitions of the fast-days, but not with the Tefilos.)

Answers to questions

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