POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
by Rabbi Ephraim Becker
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous dafSukah 50
SUKAH 50 (1st day of Shavuos) dedicated by Mrs. Bekelnitzky on the occasion
of the 34th Yahrzeit of her late husband's father, Shraga Feivish ben Nosson
Yakov (and Sima Gitle) Bikelnitzky.
1) USING A KELI SHARES FOR THE WATER
(a) Question: Why do we fill up a utensil which is not a
Keli Shares before Shabbos?
2) MAYIM MEGULIM
(b) Answer (Zeiri): Our Tana adopts two positions which
would cause the water to become Kadosh in the Keli and
subsequently be Pasul through Lina on Shabbos night.
1. There is no upper limit to the amount of water
used for the Nisuch (hence the Keli Shares would
be Mekadesh since the greater amount of water is
still the "proper" amount for the Keli Shares).
(c) Chizkiyah subscribes to the first position but says
that the second position cannot be derived from our
2. The Keli Shares is Mekadesh even unintentionally.
1. It is possible that the Keli Shares may not be
(d) R. Yanai citing R. Zeira explains how the Mishnah could
reject both the first and second position (ie. there
*is* an upper limit to the amount of water, and that a
Keli Shares is Mekadesh even unintentionally) and still
prohibit this water lest people think it was drawn for
Kidush Yadayim (which could be any amount).
2. However, we could not use a Keli Shares owing to a
Gezeirah lest these waters be confused with waters
which were put in the Keli Shares intentionally.
(a) Question: Why is exposed water Pasul for Nisuch given
that it can be filtered from any venom!?
Hadran Alach Lulav v'Aravah
1. Answer: Our Mishnah presumably rejects the
position of R. Nechemyah.
(b) Answer: Even according to R. Nechemyah, this wine/water
is Pasul for Nisuch owing to the stricter standard
regarding bringing water to the Mizbeach than
permitting such wine to a person.
2. He holds that we may rely on filtering to permit
1) The Chalil could be played for five or six days of Sukos.
2) This refers to the Chalil of Simchas Beis HaShoevah which
does not override Shabbos or YomTov.
3) SHOEVAH OR CHASHUVAH
(a) (Mar Zutra) There is a basis for either word, Shoevah
and Chashuvah, to appear in our Mishnah.
(b) Shoevah derives from the Pasuk Ush'avtem.
(c) Chashuvah derives from the fact that the Shitin are
very important, originating in Creation.
4) CHALIL ON SHABBOS AND YOMTOV
(a) (R. Yosi b. Yehudah) Chalil overrides Shabbos.
5) R. YOSEF'S SOURCE FOR THE MACHLOKES R. YOSI AND CHACHAMIM
(b) (Chachamim) It does not even override YomTov.
(c) (R. Yosef) The above Machlokes revolves around whether
Shir is primarily with a Keli (the playing is Avodah)
or primarily with one's mouth (the playing is not
Avodah, and does not override).
(d) All would agree that Simchas Beis HaShoevah is not
Avodah, hence our Mishnah (that the Chalil does not
override Shabbos or YomTov).
(a) We find that Rebbi and R. Yosi b. Yehudah argue over
the Kashrus of a wooden Keli Shares.
1. Their argument seems to revolve around whether or
not we infer from the wooden Chalil of Moshe
Rabeinu to permit wooden Kelei Shares.
(b) No, they could both hold that Shir is with a Keli and
argue over whether we may apply a fixed source (Moshe's
Chalil needed to be wood) to an unrestricted
application (other Kelei Shares).
2. This would seem to be based on whether Shir is
primarily with a Keli (in which case we would
learn from Moshe's Chalil) or by mouth (and the
Chalil is not Avodah).
(c) Alternately, they could both hold that Shir is with the
mouth and that we do not learn from a fixed source and
still argue whether Menorah informs other Keilim
through Kelal u'Frat or Rov u'Miut.
1. Rebbi would learn Kelal u'Frat U'chlal (and all
Keilim must be metal, akin to the Menorah).
2. R. Yosi would learn Rov u'Miut u'Rov (and Keilim
may be made of any material except Cheres).