POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
by Rabbi Ephraim Becker
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous dafSukah 5
SUKAH 5 - Dedicated by Martin Fogel for 20 Nisan, the Yahrzeit of his father
(Yacov ben Shlomo Fogel).
1) TEN TEFACH MINIMUM HEIGHT
(a) Question: What is the source for this minimum?
2) THE KAPORES
(b) The Answer was given by Rav, R. Chanina, R. Yochanan and R.
1. There is a tendency, throughout Moed, to substitute R.
Yonasan for R. Yochanan when he is paired with R.
(c) They answered that the Aron was nine Tefachim (1.5 Amah),
and its Kapores was an additional Tefach, and from above the
Kapores HaShem spoke with Moshe.
2. This is due to the fact that R. Yonasan was the Ben Zug
to R. Chaviva.
1. We were taught (R. Yosi) that the Shechinah does not
enter the domain given over to Man, nor does Man (even
Eliyahu and Moshe Rabeinu) enter the domain Above.
2. It then follows that a division between two things
below (e.g. The Sukah and that which is beyond it) is
created with a 10-Tefach divider.
3. Question: But we find that the Shechinah *did* come
down (on Har Sinai)?
4. Answer: The Shechinah hovered above 10 Tefachim.
5. Question: But in Zechariah we read that the Shechinah
will rest (lit. place its feet) on Har HaZeisim!?
6. Answer: Again, that will be above 10 Tefachim.
7. Question: But at Har Sinai we read that Moshe *did* go
up to the place of the Shechinah!?
8. Answer: Beneath 10.
9. Question: But what of Eliyahu's stormy ascent to
10. Answer: Again, beneath 10.
11. Question: But the Pasuk in Iyov (26:9) is understood to
mean that HaShem protected Moshe from the Malachim,
surely taking place in Shamayim!?
12. Answer: That, too, was below 10.
13. Question: But that Pasuk makes reference to Moshe
grabbing the Kisei HaKavod!?
14. Answer: The Kisei HaKavod came down within 10 for Moshe
(a) Question: While height of the Aron is clear from the Pasuk,
whence that the Kapores was a Tefach?
(b) Answer: R. Chanina infers from the Misgeres that it was a
1. The height, width and length of all the Keilim in the
Mishkan are stated excepting the height of the Kapores,
which must be inferred.
(c) Answer (R. Huna): We know that the Misgeres was a Tefach
because the Torah refers to it as have a Panim (a face is
never less a Tefach).
2. We deduce this from the minimum height recorded for any
of the Keilim, the rim (Misgeres) around the Shulchan,
which is a Tefach.
3. Question: Learn from Keilim themselves (all of which
were taller than a Tefach) rather than from a *part* of
4. Answer: Always adopt the minimum Chidush (Tafasta
5. Question: Then learn from the Tzitz, which was only two
Etzbaos tall (the details of the Tzitz are described
and debated in the cited Beraisa)?
6. Answer: We derive the dimensions of a Keli from another
(the rim), not a Keli from an adornment (the Tzitz).
7. Question: Learn from the crown-edge (Zer) of the Aron,
Mizbeach and on the Misgeres of the Shulchan (which was
8. Answer: We derive the dimensions of a functional Keli
from another Keli and not from a "touch" (Hechsher) of
9. Question: But the Misgeres was also a Hechsher!?
10. Answer: The Misgeres was integral in that it ran from
leg to leg under the tabletop of the Shulchan.
11. Question: But what of the opinion that the Misgeres was
*above* the tabletop (it would seem to be a Hechsher)?
12. Answer: Rather, we learn from the Misgeres (and not
from the Tzitz or the Zer) because we derive the
measurement of the Kapores whose (other) measurements
are stated, from that whose measurements are stated
(ie. the Misgeres, and not from that which has no
stated measure [the Tzitz and Zer).
3) BACK TO THE MINIMUM HEIGHT OF THE SUKAH
1. Question: Then why not use the measure of a huge beast
(with a *larger* face)?
2. Answer: Tafasta Merubah Lo Tafasta...(minimum Chidush).
3. Question: Then use the measure of a small-faced
4. Answer: We link this Panim to the Panim of a person
(Yitzhok Avinu) which is never less than a Tefach.
5. Question: Why not link it to the limitless Panim of
6. Answer: Tafasta...
7. Question: Learn from the Keruvim (which were on the
Kapores and whose faces were less than a Tefach).
8. Answer: We have a tradition that the faces of the
Keruvim were at least a Tefach.
i. R. Huna also derived his measurement based on this
9. Question: But the Pasuk in Yechezkel (10:14)
differentiates between the face of a person and the
face of a Keruv!?
ii. Indeed, its name, Keruv, derives from the word (in
Babylonian) for baby (Ravia) indicating that the
face was like that of a baby.
10. Answer: One is the child and one is the adult.
(a) Question: If we derive the height of the Sukah from the Aron
and Kapores, perhaps that includes the S'chach, as well (how
do we know that the interior height must be 10 Tefachim)?
(b) Answer: Rather, we learn the height of the Sukah from the
1. In both the Mikdash and Mishkan the Keruvim stood one-
third the height of the building itself.
(c) Question: This all works using the opinion of R. Meir (that
the Amos of the Keilim of Mishkan were of six Tefachim as
were the parts of the building), but what of R. Yehudah who
holds that the Keilim (unlike the building) were made of
2. In the case of the Mishkan, this would make the Keruvim
10 Tefachim (they reached 20 Tefachim, a third of the
60 Tefach height of the Mishkan, less the 10 Tefach
height of the Aron and Kapores, as above).
3. The Keruvim are called "Sochechim," a reference to
S'chach (assuming that the wings of the Keruvim are 10
Tefachim above the Kapores).
4. Question: How do we know that their wings rose above
the heads; perhaps the wings were level with the heads,
and there was not the 10 Tefach open space beneath the
Keruvim to derive a 10 Tefach interior Sukah height?
5. Answer (R. Acha b. Yakov): The Pasuk says "above,"
implying above the heads.
6. Question: Perhaps they were further above the heads!?
7. Answer: The Pasuk says Lema'alah, not more than that.
1. The Aron and Kapores then work out to 8.5 Tefachim,
leaving the distance from the Kapores to the Keruvim of
11.5 Tefachim (still working with a third of the total
60-Tefach height of the Mishkan).
(d) Answer: According to R. Yehudah the source for a 10-Tefach
minimum Sukah derives from Halachah l'Moshe MiSinai (as R.
2. We would then have to make the minimum height of a
Sukah 11.5 Tefachim!?