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Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Sanhedrin 70


(a) The Tana Kama of our Mishnah requires the boy to eat a Tartimar of meat and half a Log of wine in order to become a ben Sorer u'Moreh.
What does Rebbi Yossi say?

(b) What is the significance of Italian wine?

(c) What does the Mishnah say about a boy who eats these amounts ...

  1. ... by a Se'udas Mitzvah, by Ibur ha'Chodesh, or Ma'aser Sheini in Yerushalayim?
  2. ... of Neveilos, Tereifos, Shekatzim u'Remasim?
(d) He is also Patur if he eats Ma'aser-Sheini.
What does this mean?
(a) What does "Zolel ve'Sov'ei" imply?

(b) Which Pasuk in Mishlei hints at the same thing, even more explicitly?

(c) It is not clear what a Tartimar is.
How does Rebbi Zeira learn it from Rebbi Yossi's opinion?

(d) Rav Chanan bar Muldah requires the boy to purchase the meat and wine at a cheap price.
How does he extrapolate this from the Pasuk "Zolel ve'Sov'ei"?

(e) What is the underlying reason for this?

(a) How does Rav Huna require the ben Sorer u'Moreh to eat the meat and drink the wine in order to be Chayav?

(b) What do Rabah and Rav Yosef say about a ben Sorer u'Moreh who eats the meat when it is raw and the wine when it is undiluted?

(c) How does Ravina explain Rav Huna, to reconcile the two opinions?

(d) What is now Rav Huna's reason?

(a) What do Rabah and Rav Yosef say about a ben Sorer u'Moreh eating salted meat and drinking wine straight from the vat? Why is that?

(b) What does the Beraisa say about salted meat and wine fom the vat with regard to the Din of not eating two cooked dishes, *meat or wine* on Erev Tish'ah be'Av?

(c) What does Rebbi Chanina b'Rebbi Yossi mean when he gives the Shiur ...

  1. ... of salted meat, as 'Kol Z'man she'Hu ki'Shelamim'?
  2. ... of wine from the vat as 'Kol Z'man she'Hu Toses'? How many days does that constitute?
(d) Why might the Shiur by a ben Sorer u'Moreh be different than the Din of Erev Tish'ah be'Av?

(e) What Shiur do we therefor give for ...

  1. ... salted meat?
  2. ... wine from the vat?
(a) What does Rav Chanan learn from the Pasuk in Mishlei "T'nu Sheichar la'Oved ve'Yayin le'Marei Nefesh"? For which two purposes was wine created?

(b) If wine causes the Rehsa'im's faces to turn red in this world (since the Pasuk there writes "Al Teireh Yayin ki Yisadam"), what will happen to their faces in the World to Come?

(c) How does Rava Darshen the Pasuk "Al Teireh Yayin ki Yisadam"?

(a) How does Rav Kahana reconcile the word 'Tirosh' (wine), which is written without a 'Vav' ('Tirash') but pronounced as if it had one ('Tiyrosh')?

(b) In which two similar ways does Rava explain the Pasuk "ve'Yayin Yesamach Levav Enosh"?

(c) To what did Rava ascribe his wisdom?

(d) Rav Amram B'rei de'Rebbi Shimon bar Aba Amar Rebbi Chanina explains the Pasuk in Mishlei. Who will experience "Oy va'Voy, strife, pain, senseless wounds, and red eyes"?

(e) What does "la'Ba'im la'Chekor mi'Mesach" mean?

(a) According to Rav Dimi in the name of the B'nei Ma'arva, this is one way of explaining the Pasuk. It is also possible to explain it backwards.
If "Oy va'Voy and pain" refers to mourners, to whom does ...
  1. ... "strife and senseless wounds refer?
  2. .. "red eyes" refer?
(b) What did Ubar Galila'a comment on the Pesukim in No'ach "va'Yechal No'ach Ish Adamah, va'Yita Karem va'Yesht min ha'Yayin va'Yishkar, va'Yisgal be'Soch Ohalo ... va'Yeida es Asher Asah Lo B'no ha'Katan"?

(c) Rav and Shmuel argue over what Cham did to his father.
What are the two possibilities?

(d) What is the proof that he ...

  1. ... castrated him?
  2. ... raped him? From where do we learn the 'Gezeirah-Shavah' "va'Yar" "va'Yar"?
(e) We have already explained why No'ach cursed Cana'an, Cham's fourth son, according to the opinion which holds that Cham castrated him. But why did he do so according to the opinion that holds that he raped him? Why did he not simply curse Cham himself?
(a) According to Rav Ukva (or Rebbi Zakai), what was No'ach's mistake in planting a vineyard of all things?

(b) This conforms with Rebbi Meir, who holds in a Beraisa that the tree from which Adam ha'Rishon ate was a vine.
What is the basis for Rebbi Meir's opinion?

(c) And what is the basis for Rebbi Yehudah's opinion, that it was wheat?

(d) And what does Rebbi Nechemyah say?

(e) In which other connection do we find Hashem repairing, using the very tools with which he struck?

Answers to questions



(a) We now discuss a series of Pesukim in Mishlei. "Lemu'el Melech, Masa Asher Yisrehu Imo" ... What does ''Lemuel Melech" mean?

(b) Rebbi Yochanan in the name of Rebbi Shimon bar Yochai explains these Pesukim.
How does he explain ...

  1. ... "Mah B'ri"? What was the name of Shlomoh's mother?
  2. ... "u'Mah bar Bitni"?
  3. ... "u'Mah bar Nidri"?
(c) In what connection did Shlomoh's mother order him to avoid behaving like other kings?

(d) "u'le'Roznim Ei Sheichar" might mean that it is not befitting for someone to whom all the secrets in the world were revealed, to drink wine. What else might it mean?

(e) Rebbi Yitzchak explains that Shlomoh later admitted that his mother was right.
What did he mean when he said there ...

  1. ... "Ki Ba'ar Anochi me'Ish"?
  2. ... "ve'Lo Binas Adam Li"?
(a) What sort of people does Rebbi Avahu require a ben Sorer to eat and drink with before he becomes Chayav?

(b) How do we query him from our Mishnah, which exempts him if he eats in a Chaburas Mitzvah?

(c) How do we explain the Mishnah to reconcile it with Rebbi Avahu? If the Tana is not coming to preclude a group of empty-headed people, then what is it coming to teach us?

(d) We learned in a Beraisa that they would only eat bread and legumes at the Seudah of Ibur ha'Chodesh.
In that case, why does our Mishnah need to preclude a ben Sorer u'Moreh who eats at such a Se'udah?

(a) What is the least number of participants who would join in the Se'udah of Ibur Chodesh? What was its purpose?

(b) When did the Se'udah take place?

(c) We resolve the apparent discrepancy between two Beraisos, one of which requires them to ascend for the Se'udah in the evening (following the thirtieth of the month), the other, only the following morning, by citing Rebbi Chiya bar Aba.
What instructions would Rebbi Chiya bar Aba issue to the participants of the Se'udas Ibur Chodesh?

(d) Why can the Sugya of Ibur Chodesh not be referring to Kidush ha'Chodesh?

(a) What does Rava say about a ben Sorer u'Moreh who ate fowl?

(b) Then how will he explain our Mishnah, which exempts him if he ate 'Shekatzim and Remasim', suggesting that if he would have eaten Kasher creatures of that type of meat, he would be Chayav? Which kind of Kasher creature must the Tana be referring to?

(c) Having already learned in the Reisha 'Achal ba'Chaburas Mitzvah' on the one hand, and 'Tereifos, Shekatzim and Remasim' on the other, what does the Tana come to include, when he adds ...

  1. ... 'Achal Davar she'Hu Mitzvah'? How would we then interpret the Reisha?
    What sort of Mitzvah does that refer to?
  2. ... 'u'D'var Aveirah'?
(d) Why is the ben Sorer u'Moreh Patur for eating a D'var Aveirah?
(a) Having already learned in the Reisha that a ben Sorer u'Moreh is only Chayav for eating meat and drinking wine, why does the Tana find it necessary to add ...
  1. ... 'Achal Kol Ma'achal ve'Lo Achal Basar'?
  2. ... 'Shasah Kol Mashkeh ve'Lo Shasah Yayin'?
(b) Why does the Tana nevertheless need to preclude them? Why might we have thought that the ben Sorer u'Moreh is Chayav?

(c) The Beraisa repeats the Pesukim that our Mishnah quoted regarding "Zolel ve'Sovei", but adds another Pasuk in Mishlei, which begins "Ki Sovei ve'Zolel Yivaresh".
What does this mean?

(d) What does Rebbi Zeira Darshen from the continuation of the Pasuk "u'Kera'im Talbish Numa" with regard to someone who sleeps in the Beis-ha'Medrash? What does "Numa" mean?

Answers to questions

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