ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Sanhedrin 70
(a) The Tana Kama of our Mishnah requires the boy to eat a Tartimar of meat
and half a Log of Italian wine in order to become a ben Sorer u'Moreh.
According to Rebbi Yossi - he must eat a Manah of meat and drink a Log of
(b) The significance of Italian wine is - that the underlying reason behind
the Chiyuv of a ben Sorer u'Moreh is the fact that he becomes easily
addicted to the meat and wine, which is not the case by ordinary wine.
(c) The Mishnah rules - that a boy who eats these amounts ...
1. ... by a Se'udas Mitzvah, by Ibur ha'Chodesh, or Ma'aser Sheini in
Yerushalayim - is Patur.
(d) He is also Patur if he eats Ma'aser-Sheini. This mean - that he steals
Ma'aser-Sheini money from his parents, with which he buys meat and wine and
eats, in Yerushalayim.
2. ... of Neveilos, Tereifos, Shekatzim u'Remasim' - is Patur, too.
(a) "Zolel ve'Sov'ei" implies - that he eats meat and drinks wine in a
(b) The Pasuk in Mishlei - "Al Tehi be'Sov'ei Yayin, be'Zolelei Basar Lamo"
hints at the same thing even more explicitly.
(c) It is not clear what a Tartimar is. Rebbi Zeira learns it from Rebbi
Yossi's opinion - because just as the Shiur of wine he gives is double the
amount of that prescribed by the Tana Kama, so presumably, is the Shiur of
meat. Consequently, since Rebbi Yossi gives the latter as a Manah, the
Tartimar of the Tana Kama must be half a Manah.
(d) Rav Chanan bar Muldah requires the boy to purchase the meat and wine at
a cheap price, and he extrapolates this from the Pasuk "Zolel ve'Sov'ei" -
because "Zolel" is from the root 'Zol' meaning 'cheap'.
(e) The underlying reason for this is - because he is unlikely to become
addicted to the food if it is expensive).
(a) In order to be Chayav, Rav Huna requires the ben Sorer u'Moreh - to eat
the meat raw, and drink the wine undiluted.
(b) Rabah and Rav Yosef exempt him from Miysah if he eats the meat raw and
drinks the wine undiluted (because eating food like that does not lead to
(c) To reconcile the two opinions, Ravina explains Rav Huna - to mean that
the meat should not be completely cooked (only half-roasted on coals, the
way robbers eat it, and the wine not properly diluted (in the way that most
people drink it)
(d) Rav Huna's reason is - because since he steals the meat from his
parents, he will be afraid to eat it in a liesurely manner in case he gets
caught, and even if he does so once, he will not do it regularly). And asfor
the wine, one does not become addicted to drinking undiluted wine or wine
that is over-diluted.
(a) Rabah and Rav Yosef say that if a ben Sorer u'Moreh eats salted meat and
drinks wine straight from the vat - he is Patur, because eating and drinking
in this way does not addict.
(b) The Beraisa rules that even though one may not eat two cooked dishes,
meat or wine at the Se'udah ha'Mefsekes on Erev Tish'ah-be'Av - salted meat
and wine fom the vat are not included in the prohibition.
(c) When Rebbi Chanina b'Rebbi Yossi gives the Shiur ...
1. ... of salted meat, as 'Kol Z'man she'Hu ki'Shelamim', he means - that
for the two days and the night in between that one is permitted to eat
Shelamim, it is not called salted (because the meat's natural juice
continues to meutralize the salt).
(d) The Shiur by a ben Sorer u'Moreh might be different than the Din of Erev
Tish'ah be'Av - because whereas the latter is based on Simchah, the former
is a question of addiction, which consequently has a different guage.
2. ... of wine from the vat as 'Kol Z'man she'Hu Toses', he means that as
long as the wine 'bites the throat' because of its sharpness, it is called
'Toses' (constituting three days). Note, that Yayin Toses is also not
subject to Giluy (wine that is left open, which is forbiddden for fear that
a snake drank from it).
(e) We therefor give the shiur for ...
1. ... salted meat - as one day only, meaning that once the first day has
passed, it is no longer addictive, and a ben Sorer u'Moreh is not Chayav.
2. ... wine from the vat - as up to forty days.
(a) Rav Chanan learns from the Pasuk "T'nu Sheichar la'Oved ve'Yayin
le'Marei Nefesh" - that wine was created a. to pay the Resha'im in this
world, in order to drive them out of the next. b. to comfort mourners.
(b) Wine causes the Resha'im's faces to turn red (from pleasure) in this
world (since the Pasuk there writes "Al Teireh Yayin ki Yisadam"); in the
World to Come - they will turn white from embarrassment.
(c) Rava Darshens the Paasuk "Al Teire Yayin Ki Yisadam" - as a warning not
to pursue the pleasures of wine, because in the end, it will turn into blood
(meaning that it will cause one's death).
(a) Rav Kahana reconciles the word 'Tirosh' (wine), which is written without
a 'Vav', which spells ('Tirash') but pronounced as if it had one
('Tiyrosh') - by ascribing to wine two powers 'Zachah Na'aseh Rosh ([meaning
a leader] corresponding to the way it is pronounced), Lo Zachah, Na'aseh
Rash' ([meaning poor] corresponding to the way it is written).
(b) Similarly, Rava explains the Pasuk "ve'Yayin Yesamach Levav Enosh" - to
mean either "Yeshamemehu" (a Lashon of destruction and desolation, the way
it is written [a 'Shin', it seems, is more substancial than a 'Sin']) or
"Yesamach", the way it is pronounced.
(c) Rava ascribed his wisdom - to wine and spices.
(d) Rav Amram B'rei de'Rebbi Shimon bar Aba Amar Rebbi Chanina explains the
Pasuk in Mishlei. The ones who will experience "Oy va'Voy, strife, pain,
senseless wounds, and red eyes" are - those who stay back for more wine.
(e) "la'Ba'im la'Chekor mi'Mesach" - refers to people who search for where
they can find superior spiced wines.
(a) According to Rav Dimi in the name of the B'nei Ma'arva, this is one way
of explaining the Pasuk. It is also possible to explain it backwards. If "Oy
va'Voy and pain" refers to mourners ...
1. ... "strife and senseless wounds" refers to - wicked people who are
constantly picking fights with others.
(b) Ubar Galila'a commented on the Pesukim in No'ach "va'Yechal No'ach Ish
Adamah, va'Yita Karem va'Yesht min ha'Yayin va'Yishkar, va'Yisgal be'Soch
Ohalo ... va'Yeida es Asher Asah Lo B'no ha'Katan" - on the thirteen 'Vay's
(words which begin with 'Vav' 'Yud', which with begin with No'ach planting a
vineyard, and culminate with his own denigration at the hand of his son.
2. .. "red eyes" - refers to those who are well-off and comfortable; they
are the ones who can afford to look for superior spiced wines.
(c) Rav and Shmuel argue over what Cham did to his father. One says he
castrated him, the other, that he raped him.
(d) The proof that he ...
1. ... castrated him lies in the fact - that No'ach cursed his fourth son
Cana'an, in return for Cham's having prevented him from having a fourth son.
(e) We have already explained why No'ach cursed Cana'an, Cham's fourth son,
according to the opinion which holds that Cham castrated him. According to
the opinion that he raped him, he did so - because in fact, he agrees that
he castrated him (besides raping him).
2. ... raped him stems from a 'Gezeirah-Shavah' "va'Yar" -"va'Yar Osah
Sh'chem ben Chamor" (in connection with the rape of Dinah).
(a) According to Rav Ukva (or Rebbi Zakai), No'ach's mistake in planting a
vineyard of all things - was in not taking his cue from Adam ha'Rishon, who
brought death on himself and on the whole of the world through drinking
(b) This conforms with Rebbi Meir, who holds in a Beraisa that the tree from
which Adam ate was a vine. The basis for Rebbi Meir's opinion is - precisely
what we have been saying; that nothing causes as much wailing as wine.
(c) The basis for Rebbi Yehudah's opinion, that it was wheat is - the fact
that a baby learns to call his mother and father directly when he begins to
eat wheat-bread (suggesting that the Eitz ha'Da'as was wheat.
(d) According to Rebbi Nechemyah - it was a fig-tree, because that is the
tree whose leaves they took to fashion themselves belts to cover their
nakedness. So presumably, that is the tree that caused them to sin.
(e) We find Hashem repairing, using the very tools with which he struck -
with regard to the Beis-Hamikdash, which He destroyed with fire, and which
He will rebuild with fire (like we say in 'Nacheim' on Tish'ah be'Av). May
it come about soon.
(a) We now discuss the series of Pesukim in Mishlei. "Lemu'el Melech, Masa
Asher Yisrehu Imo". ''Lemuel Melech" means - 'The deeds and wisdom of the
Shlomoh ha'Melech were dedicated to the Shechinah' ("Lemu'el'' = 'Lamo
(b) Rebbi Yochanan in the name of Rebbi Shimon bar Yochai explain these
Pesukim. This is his explanation ...
1. ... "Mah B'ri" - Everyone knows that Shlomoh's father feared Hashem. So
if Shlomoh indulges in wine and becomes obssessed with the pleasures of
life, they will say that he took after his mother (Bas-Sheva).
(c) She ordered him to avoid behaving like other kings - who would drink to
he point of drunkenness (i.e. who would satiate themselves with the
pleasures of life).
2. ... "u'Mah bar Bitni" - All of David's other wives were no longer
intimate with him once they became pregnant (until they gave birth). Not so
Bas-Sheva, who in the knowledge that intimacy is healthy for the baby during
the last three months of pregnancy, forced her way into her husband's
presence (to make him aware of her).
3. ... "u'Mah bar Nidri" - Whereas all David's other wives prayed for a son
who would be fit to reign, Bas-Sheva prayed for a son who would be a great
Talmid-Chacham and who would be fit to be a Navi.
(d) "u'le'Roznim Eli Sheichar" might mean that it is not befitting for
someone to whom all the secrets in the world are revealed, to become drunk.
Alternatively, it might mean - that it is not befitting for someone who is
visited by all the kings (who came to pay him homage and to ask for his
advice) to be in a state of drunken stupor.
(e) Rebbi Yitzchak explains that Shlomoh later admitted that his mother was
right. When he said there ...
1. ... "Ki Ba'ar Anochi me'Ish", he meant - that if No'ach (who was called
'Ish Tzadik'), who did not drink as much as he did, suffered from the wine
that he drank, how much more so would he suffer (if he didn't stop).
2. ... "ve'Lo Binas Adam Li" - he was making the same analogy between
himself and Adam ha'Rishon, who also drank less than he did (and look what
happened to him).
(a) Rebbi Avahu requires a ben Sorer to eat and drink with - a group of
empty-headed people, before he becomes Chayav.
(b) We query him from our Mishnah, which exempts him if he eats in a
Chaburas Mitzvah - implying that any group that is not a Chaburas Mitzvah
renders the ben Sorer u'Moreh Chayav, irrespective of the caliber of people
he eats with.
(c) We answer this - by establishing our Mishnah by a group of empty-headed
people, which is coming to teach us that the ben Sorer u'Moreh is
nevertheless Patur, since it is a Chaburas Mitzvah.
(d) We learned in a Beraisa that they would only eat bread and legumes at
the Seudah of Ibur ha'Chodesh. Nevertheless, our Mishnah needs to preclude
a ben Sorer u'Moreh who eats at such a Se'udah - to exempt him even when he
brings his own meat and wine with him.
(a) The least number of participants who would join in the Se'udah of Ibur
Chodesh - whose purpose was to spread the fact that Rosh Chodesh fell on the
thirty-first day of the previous month (and not on the thirtieth) is - ten.
(b) The Se'udah if Ibur ha'Chodesh took place - on the night following the
(c) We resolve the apparent discrepancy between two Beraisos, one of which
requires them to ascend for the Se'udah in the evening (following the
thirtieth of the month), the other, in the morning, by citing Rebbi Chiya
bar Aba, who would instruct the participants of the Se'udas Ibur Chodesh -
to arrive before nightfall, and to leave only after day-break (so that
people would see them coming and see them going, and realize that Rosh
Chodesh fell on the thirty-first).
(d) The Sugya of Ibur Chodesh cannot be referring to Kidush ha'Chodesh -
because a. Kidush ha'Chodesh did not take place when Rosh Chodesh took place
on the thirty-first, and b. because Kidush ha'Chodesh only requires three
people, and not ten.
(a) Rava rules - that a ben Sorer u'Moreh who ate fowl is Patur.
(b) And he establishes our Mishnah, which exempts him if he ate 'Shekatzim
and Remasim', suggesting that if he would have eaten Kasher creatures of
that type of meat (i.e. locusts), he would be Chayav is speaking - when he
ate a little less than a Tartimar of animal meat, which he needs to
complement with the meat under discussion.
(c) Having already learned in the Reisha 'Achal ba'Chaburas Mitzvah' on the
one hand, and 'Tereifos, Shekatzim and Remasim' on the other, the Tana adds
1. ... 'Achal D'var she'Hu Mitzvah' - to include Tanchumeu Aveilim (even
though the Se'udah there is no more than a Takanas Chachamim). We would then
interpret the Reisha - to mean Kohanim eating Kodshim or even Yisre'elim
eating the Korban Pesach.
(d) The ben Sorer u'Moreh is Patur for eating a D'var Aveirah - because the
Torah writes "Einenu Shome'a be'Koleinu", from which we extrapolate
"be'Koleinu", 've'Lo be'Kolo shel Makom'.
2. ... 'u'D'var Aveirah' - to include eating on a Ta'anis Tzibur (which is
also only an Isur de'Rabbanan).
(a) In spite of having already learned in the Reisha that a ben Sorer
u'Moereh is only Chayav for eating meat and drinking wine, the Tana finds it
necessary to add ...
1. ... 'Achal Kol Ma'achal ve'Lo Achal Basar' - to preclude also a fig from
Ke'ilah (which inebriates).
(b) The Tana nevertheless needs to preclude them. Otherwise, we might have
thought that the ben Sorer u'Moreh is Chayav - in view of the Beraisa which
obligates someone who partakes of them and enters the Beis-Hamikdash (as if
he had drunk wine).
2. ... 'Shasah Kol Mashkeh ve'Lo Shasah Yayin' - to preclude honey and milk.
(c) The Beraisa repeats the Pesukim that our Mishnah quoted regarding "Zolel
ve'Sovei", adding the Pasuk in Mishlei which begins "Ki Sovei ve'Zolel
Yivaresh", which means - that someone who benefits excessively, will become
poor in learning (he will not remember what he has learned).
(d) Rebbi Zeira Darshens from the continuation of the Pasuk "u'Kera'im
Talbish Numa" - that if someone sleeps ('Numi' in Arama'ic) in the
Beis-ha'Medrash - his learning will become torn and fragmented (i.e. he will
only remember bits and pieces of his learning).