ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Menachos 41
MENACHOS 41 - This Daf has been generously dedicated by Sandy and Les
Wiesel, in honor of a Refu'ah Shelemah for Mrs. G. Kornfeld.
(a) The Tana Kama of the Beraisa rules that a folded garment - is Chayav
Tzitzis the way it is.
(b) Rebbi Shimon rules - that it is Patur.
(c) The problem with the Beraisa's statement that Rebbi Shimon concedes that
it is Chayav if one then sewed it is - that this is obvious, and does
require a Beraisa to say it.
(d) We answer 'Lo Tzericha, de'Naktah be'Sichi', which might mean that he
did not sew it, but held the folds together with pegs. It might also mean -
that he basted it (sewed it with large stitches).
(a) When Rabah bar Rav Huna went to see Rabah (or Rava) bar Rav Nachman, he
found him wearing a folded Talis with Tzitzis on the four corners.
(b) When he unfolded it to cover his whole body, two of the Tzitzis landed
up in the middle of the garment on his head.
(c) When Rabah bar Rav Huna pointed out that this was not the Kanaf
mentioned by the Torah - Rabah bar Rav Nachman replaced that Talis with
(d) Rabah bar Rav Huna objected to that - on the grounds that replacing the
'non-Kasher' garment would not exempt him from attaching Tzitzis to its four
corners, since Tzitzis is a 'Chovas Talis', and not just a 'Chovas Gavra'.
(a) We try to prove Rabah bar Rav Huna's ruling, from the Chasidim
ha'Rishonim in the Beraisa (that we cited earlier) 'Keivan she'Argu Bah
Shalosh, Hayu Matilin Bah Techeiles' - seeing as they attached Tzitzis even
though, at that stage, the Begadim were not yet ready to be worn.
(b) We refute the proof however - by stressing that they were after all,
Chasidim, whose actions were 'Lif'nim mi'Shuras ha'Din' (to perform Chumros
even when there was no Chiyuv), so perhaps they gave the Beged a Din of
Chovas Talis, le'Chumra.
(c) Rav Ketina would wear a Sadin in summer and a Sarb'la a coat) in winter.
Both of these were Patur from Tzitzis - the former because of the decree of
'K'sus Laylah' (as we learned earlier) - the latter, because two of its four
corners were round.
(d) The angel asked him - why he did not wear Tzitzis.
(a) Rav Ketina, who took for granted that the angel was warning him that he
would be punished, asked in surprised, whether Hashem punishes for failure
to perform an Asei (see Tosfos DH 'Anshiso a'Asei').
(b) The latter's reply was - that when Hashem is angry, Hashem does indeed
punish even for Mitzvos Asei such as this one (see Agados Maharsha).
(c) We try to prove from here that the angel argues with Rabah bar Rav Huna,
that Tzitzis is Chovas Gavra and not Chovas Talis - because if it was Chovas
Talis, how would it be possible to punish someone for not attaching Tzitzis
on a Beged that is Patur from Tzitzis?
(d) We refute this proof however, on the grounds that - even we were to say
that it is 'Chovas Gavra', we could ask exactly the same question (i.e. how
it would be possible to punish someone for wearing a Beged that does not
require Tzitzis without attaching Tzitzis).
(a) The angel was accusing Rav Ketina - of evading the Mitzvah of Tzitzis,
by constantly wearing Begadim that were Patur from Tzitzis.
(b) Rav Tuvi bar Bisna Amar Shmuel too, requires that one attaches Tzitzis
to garments in the drawer. On the other hand, he learns from the Pasuk
"Asher Techaseh Bah" - that only a Beged that is worn for warmth and
protection is Chayav Tzitzis, but not a garment that an old man wears for
(c) When he says 'be'Hahu Sha'ata be'Vaday Raminan, Mishum "Lo'eg la'Rash
Cheref Oseihu", he means - that one attaches Tzitzis to the shrouds of a
dead man, to avoid the impression that one is mocking him, inasmuch as we
are Chayav Tzitzis and he is Patur (see Tosfos).
(a) The distinction Rachbah Amar Rav Yehudah draws between a Beged which
tore beyond three finger-breadths from the edge and within three
finger-breadths is - that one is permitted to repair the former, but not the
latter (see also Shitah Mekubetzes 11).
(b) The reason for this distinction is - because since within three
finger-breadths is a location which is eligible to attach Tzitzis, the
Chachamim issued a decree in case one subsequently comes to rely on the
excess thread to use as Tzitzis. This does not apply to beyond three
finger-breadths, which is not an eligible location to attach Tzitzis anyway.
(c) This conforms with the opinion of Rebbi Meir in a Beraisa. According to
the Chachamim - Chazal issued no such decree, and even a tear within three
finger-breadths may be repaired.
(a) Both opinions agree however, that one is not permitted to bring a
complete Kanaf (even the size of an Amah), with the Tzitzis already
attached, and sew it over the torn Kanaf - because it constitutes "Ta'aseh",
've'Lo min he'Asuy'.
(b) They permit bringing used Tzitzis from one Beged to attach to another -
provided they have the required Shi'ur (since Lechatchilah, the Tzitzis must
conform with all the requirements, as we learned above).
(c) We might we have thought that this would be prohibited - because
removing Tzitzis from one Beged to attach on to another, denigrates the
first Beged (so perhaps we ought to say 'Ein Matirin mi'Beged le'Beged').
(d) We nevertheless reject the proof from here that 'Matirin mi'Beged
le'Beged' - because perhaps the Tana is speaking where the first Beged is
worn out and is no longer fit to be worn (though it is not then clear what
he is coming to teach us).
(a) The Beraisa rules that if a Talis is made completely of Techeiles - one
fulfills the Mitzvah of Lavan on it with any color Tzitzis (as long as it is
(b) The sole dye (besides Techeiles), that is not eligible - is Kala Ilan,
which the Chachamim forbade, in case there comes a time when the owner needs
Tzitzis for a Sadin, and thinking that all the Tzitzis on this Beged are
genuine Techeiles, he will take two of them and use them on the Sadin (not
realizing that they are Kala Ilan), and transgress the Isur of Sha'atnez.
Note, the author of this Beraisa cannot then be Rebbi, who forbids Sadin
(c) Another Beraisa requires the same color Tzitzis as the Beged (regarding
Lavan [see Tosfos DH 'Ein Poter'). We ask on the previous Beraisa, from this
Tana's ruling - permitting Kala Ilan Bedieved, which the previous Tana did
(d) And we establish the second Beraisa when he added only two threads of
Kala Ilan to the two threads of Techeiles which (in spite of what we said
earlier) is Kasher Bedieved - because he is unlikely to take the Kala Ilan
Tzitzis from the Beged, seeing as there are no spare threads on it.
(a) And we establish the first Beraisa - when, in order to fulfill the
Mitzvah of Lavan, he added four Kala Ilan Tzitzis to the four Techeiles
Tzitzis that were already there. It is Pasul - because we are afraid that at
a later date, he will take the Kala Ilan threads, and believing them to be
Techeiles, attach them to a Sadin, as we explained.
(b) Another reason for forbidding Kala Ilan in the first Beraisa (even
Bedieved [even according to Rebbi]) is - because the Tzitzis must comprise
two different colors.
(c) And we establish the second Beraisa - when there are already eight
Tzitzis, four Techeiles and four Lavan, and it remains Kasher Bedieved,
since it has eight Tzitzis even without the four of Kala Ilan.
(d) There no proof from the decree currently under discussion that 'Matirin
mi'Beged le'Beged' - because the Tana is concerned that one might transfer
the Tzitzis from one Beged to another, but that does not mean that it is
permitted to do so.
(a) Rav holds 'Ein Matirin mi'Beged le'Beged', 'Ein Madlikin mi'Ner le'Ner'
and 'Ein Halachah ke'Rebbi Shimon bi'Gereirah'. The lights he is referring
to - are those of Chanukah.
(b) Shmuel rules - 'Matirin mi'Beged le'Beged', 'Madlikin mi'Ner le'Ner' and
'Halachah ke'Rebbi Shimon bi'Gereirah'.
(c) The last ruling constitutes - dragging a bed, a chair or a bench along
the ground on Shabbos, which Rebbi Shimon in a Beraisa permits, provided one
does not specifically intend to make a groove, because Rebbi holds 'Davar
she'Ein Miskaven, Mutar'.
(d) Abaye testified - that Rabah ruled like Rav against Shmuel all through
Shas, except for these three cases, where he ruled like Shmuel (presumably,
he is referring to Isur only, since in Mamon, the Halachah is like Shmuel).
(a) Rav Yehudah would hand his Tzitzis (garment with Tzitzis) to a Nochri
laundry man. We might have thought that this is forbidden - for fear that
the Techeiles tears and the laundry man replaces it with Kala Ilan.
(b) Rav Chanina would roll the Tzitzis into a ball - Ravina used to sew a
rim round the edge of the Beged, into which he would stuff the Tzitzis (to
prevent them from tearing) before giving in to the laundry.
(a) According to Beis Shamai, Tzitzis comprise four threads (which are then
doubled). Beis Hillel say - three.
(b) When we say 've'Kamah Tehei Meshuleshes, Beis Shamai Omrim Shalosh' - we
are referring to the P'sil ...
(c) ... in which case the size of the G'dil will be two finger-breadths (see
also Tosfos DH 'Beis Shamai').
(d) According to Beis Hillel - the P'sil is three finger-breadths (the G'dil
one and a half).
(a) The Beraisa defines the finger-breadths of Beis Hillel as - four per
(b) That refers to the thumb, Abaye explains. According to him - each Tefach
comprises six little fingers and five middle ones.
(c) When Rav Papa says with regard to the Tzitzis ...
1. ... 'Hilchesa Arba be'Soch Shalosh', he means - that the four Tzitzis
should be threaded through the hole in the Beged within three
finger-breadths from the edge.
(d) We query Rav Papa from a Beraisa which translates 'Tzitzis' as coming
out (from the Kanaf). The Tana, supported by the elders of Beis Shamai and
Beis Hillel in the attic of Yonasan ben Beseira, also translate 'Tzitzis'
as - a 'Mashehu' (without a Shi'ur).
2. ... 'Meshuleshes Arba' - that the P'sil should hang down four
finger-breadths (as we explained above).
(a) We reconcile this Beraisa with Rav Papa, who just gave Tzitzis a Shiur -
by interpreting 'Ein Lah Shi'ur' to mean 'Ein Lah Shi'ur le'Ma'alah, Aval
Yesh Lah Shi'ur Lematah' (though it is unclear how this conforms with the
Lashon 'Mashehu' in the Beraisa).
(b) We prove this from the same Beraisa's statement regarding Lulav -
'ka'Yotze Bo, Lulav Ein Lo Shi'ur'.
(c) Which certainly means 'Ein Lo Shi'ur le'Ma'alah, Aval Yesh Lo Shi'ur
(d) ... since the Mishnah in Sukah - requires a Lulav to be at least three
Tefachim, plus an extra Tefach for shaking.