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Kidushin 72

KIDUSHIN 72-75 - sponsored by a generous grant from an anonymous donor. Kollel Iyun Hadaf is indebted to him for his encouragement and support and prays that Hashem will repay him in kind.


(a) According to Rav Papa, just as the Amora'im argue about the borders with re. to Yuchsin, so too, do they argue with re. to Gitin.
What does he mean by that?

(b) Rav Yosef says that as far as Gitin is concerned, they all agree that the border extends as far as 'Arba Tinyana de'Gishra'.
What is ...

  1. ... 'Arba'?
  2. ... 'Arba Tinyana'?
(c) What did Rami bar Aba mean when he said ...
  1. ... 'Chavil Yama Techelta de'Bavel'? What is another name for Chavil Yama?
  2. ... 'Shunya de'Guvya Techelta de'Chavil Yama'?
(d) Ravina adds Tzitzura to the latter pair.
Like whom ought we to rule?
(a) What caused Rav Papa to think that Chavil Yama was no longer reliable re. Yuchsin?

(b) What other reason (which we reject as unlikely) might Rav Papa have had for stating his opinion?

(a) When a man claimed that he was a resident of Shut Meishut, what declaration did Rebbi Yitzchak Nafcha arise and make?

(b) Abaye explained this declaration with a statement of Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Chanina.
What did the latter mean when he declared that between the rivers is like Golah? What did he mean by Golah?

(c) How does Abaye reconcile Rebbi Yochanan, who places Shut Meishut south of Ihi de'Kiri, which is the most southernmost point mentioned to date, with his own opinion (cited earlier), that the eastern border ends at the crossing of Gizma (which is further north)?

(a) What did Rav Ika bar Avin Amar Rav Chananel Amar Rav say about the area of the River Nihavand?

(b) What did Rav Ika bar Avin retort when Abaye (unaware that he had quoted Rav Chananel Amar Rav) announced not to take any notice of him, since he only issued this ruling because a Yevamah had fallen to him from that area?

(c) Rav Aba bar Kahana disagreed with the previous ruling. He named each of the places specified by the Pasuk in Shmuel "va'Yanchem be'Chalach u've'Chavor, Nahar Gozen ve'Arei Madai". "Chalach" is Chilazon', and "Arei Madai", according to some, Nihavand ve'Chavrosehah.
What did Rebbi Yochanan say about all these areas (which runs contrary to the previous ruling of Rav Ika bar Avin)?

(d) According to Shmuel, 've'Chavrosehah' refers to Mushchi, Chuski and Rumki. Why can 'Mushchi' not be synonymous with Mushchani?

(a) In Nevuchadnetzar's dream, the first of the four beasts (which corresponded to Bavel and resembled a lion), had "three ribs in its mouth, between its teeth", representing Chilazon, Hadayav and Netzivin.
What is the significance of the phrase "in its mouth, between its teeth"?

(b) The second beast resembled a bear.
To whom did it correspond?

(c) The Persians resembled bears in four ways, says the Beraisa quoted by Rav Yosef: They ate like bears and were fat like bears.
In which other two ways did they resemble bears?

(d) What would Rebbi Ami comment when he saw a Persian astride a horse?

(a) When Rebbi asked Levi to describe various nationalities, how did he describe ...
  1. ... the Persians?
  2. ... the Chavrin (neighbors of the Persians, who were wilder than them)?
  3. ... Yishme'elim?
  4. ... the Talmidei-Chachamim of Bavel?
(b) On his deathbed, Rebbi prophesied about various cities in Bavel.
What did he say about ...
  1. ... Humnaya?
  2. ... Misgarya?
  3. ... Birka? What did two brothers do there?
(c) In Birsa de'Satya, they strayed from the path.
What did they do ...
  1. ... when the pool swarmed a lot of fish?
  2. ... when Rav Acha b'Rebbi Yashiyah placed the culprits in Cherem?
(d) In Akra de'Agma, Rav Ada bar Ahavah sat in the bosom of Avraham Avinu. What difference will it make whether this means that he died on that day or that he was circumcised?
Answers to questions



(a) Who was born on the day that ...
  1. ... Rebbi Akiva died?
  2. ... Rebbi died?
  3. ... Rav Yehudah died?
  4. ... Rava died?
(b) What do we learn from here? Which Pasuk in Koheles springs to mind?

(c) Based on the Pasuk in Shmuel "ve'Ner Elokim Terem Yichbeh", which famous Tzadik was born before another one died?

(d) On what basis does Rav Yehudah connect the Pasuk in Eichah "Tzivah Hashem le'Ya'akov Sevivav Tzarav" to Humnaya and Pum Nahara? What are the ramifications of this statement?

(a) When Yechezkel cried out at the death of Paltiel ben Benayahu, Rav and Shmuel argue over whether he cried out for the good or for the bad.
What was unusual about his death that caused the Navi to react in this way, assuming that he cried out ...
  1. ... for the good?
  2. ... for the bad?
(b) How does the one who interprets it ...
  1. ... for the good explain it? What good deed did he perform that caused the Navi anguish at his untimely death?
  2. ... for the bad explain it? What evil had he perpetrated that caused him to cry out in dismay at his painless death?
(c) Having written (with re. to the previous incident) "P'neihem Keidmah", why did Yechezkel see fit to add "Achoreihem el Heichal Hashem"? Is this not self-understood?
(a) Rebbi Chiya bar Avin Amar Shmuel compares Mushchani to 'Golah' re. Yichus (as we learned earlier). Re. Meishan, he says, they were not worried about Avadim nor Mamzeirim. What then, were they worried about?

(b) How do we try and prove from here that Shmuel is the one who interpreted the Navi's cry negatively?

(c) We answer that Shmuel may well interpret it positively, and that Shmuel follows his own reasoning elsewhere.
What does Shmuel extrapolate from the Pasuk in Mishpatim "Kol Eved Ish Miknas Kesef"?

(d) How will that explain the fact that the Chachamim were not concerned about Avadim in Meishan?

(a) Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel maintains that the author of our Mishnah, which differentiates between Bavel and other lands re. Yichus, is Rebbi Meir.
What do the Chachamim say?

(b) Ameimar permitted Rav Huna bar Nasan to marry a woman from Mechuza, which was situated outside the borders of Bavel, because he relied on Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel.
On what grounds did Rav Ashi object?

(c) Why did Ameimar override Rav Ashi's objection?

(a) Rebbi Yossi in a Beraisa declares that, when Mashi'ach comes, Mamzeirim and Nesinim will be accepted.
What does Rebbi Meir say?

(b) How does Rebbi Meir counter Rebbi Yossi's proof from the Pasuk in Yechezkel "ve'Zarakti Aleichem Mayim Tehorim u'Tehartem"?

(c) From which words does Rebbi Yossi then include Mamzeirim and Nesinim in the concession?

(a) Bearing in mind that the Pasuk in Zecharyah "Veyashav Mamzer be'Ashdod" refers to the future, what Kashya does this pose on Rebbi Yossi?

(b) How does Rebbi Yossi therefore interpret the Pasuk?

(c) What does Rav Yosef say would have happened had Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel not ruled like Rebbi Yossi?

(a) On what basis does Rebbi Yossi in a Beraisa permit a Ger to marry a Mamzeres? What status will the child have?

(b) On what basis does Rebbi Yehudah disagree?

(c) And on what grounds does the Tana then permit a Ger, an Eved Meshuchrar and a Chalal to a Kohenes?

Answers to questions

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