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Kidushin 71

KIDUSHIN 71 - Sponsored by Rabbi Dr. Eli Turkel and his wife, Jeri Turkel. May Hashem bless them with many years of Simcha, health and fulfillment, and may they see all of their children and grandchildren follow them in the ways of Torah and Yir'as Shamayim!


(a) In Rebbi's time, they wanted to declare Bavel 'an Iysah' to Eretz Yisrael.
Why was Rebbi unhappy about that?

(b) What might 'Iysah' mean (besides 'a dough')?

(c) What were the findings of Rebbi Chanina bar Chama (quoting Rebbi Yishmael b'Rebbi Yossi quoting his father), Rebbi's emissary?

(a) The same happened in the days of Rebbi Pinchas.
Why did he decide to first teaching them another Halachah before telling them 'Eretz Yisrael Iysah le'Bavel'? What was he afraid of?

(b) Why did he specifically choose the Halachah of 'Ein Shechitah le'Of min ha'Torah'?

(c) How do we derive this from the Pasuk by Kisuy ha'Dam?

(d) What did he instruct his men to do as soon as he had finished speaking? Why did he not run himself?

(a) The Talmidim chased after him but could not catch him. Clearly, they were eager to discover who the Pesulim were and wanted to sift them out. What do we mean when we say that they made enquiries 'Ad she'Higi'u le'Sakanah'?

(b) What did Rebbi Yochanan mean when he said ...

  1. ... 'Heichla, be'Yadeinu Hu!"? What does 'Heichla' mean?
  2. ... 'Aval Mah E'eseh ... '? Why did he choose to remains silent?
(c) What Halachic basis did he have for remaining silent?

(d) Abaye proves this from a Mishnah in Iduyos, which speaks about one family which ben Tzi'on rejected by force and another which he accepted by force.
How does the Mishnah continue?

(a) And the Tana of a Beraisa speaks of a family which the Chachamim knew to be Pasul, but which they did not want to publicise.
So what did they do instead?

(b) Some say that they would pass on its name once every seven years.
What do others say?

(c) Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak prefers the first version on the basis of a Tosefta in Nazir.
What does the Tana say there re. someone who declares 'Hareini Nazir Im Lo Agaleh Mishpachos'? What does Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak extrapolate from this?

(d) Re. which other Halachah do we have the same two opinions, with Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak preferring the first version?

(a) Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak's basis for Darshening the correct pronunciation of Hashem's four letter Name once every seven years (and not twice) is the Pasuk in Sh'mos "Zeh Sh'mi Le'olam".
What do we learn from there?

(b) On what grounds did that old man find it necessary to quote this Pasuk to Rava?

(c) How does Rav Avina reconcile the double Lashon "*Zeh* Sh'mi le'Olam *ve'Zeh* Zichri le'Dor Dor"?

(d) What did they do when people began abusing Hashem's twelve-letter Name? How come that people did not pick it up from the Kohanim during Duchening?

(a) What happened once, when Rebbi Tarfon, as a youngster, followed his maternal aunt up to Duchen?

(b) What was he doing there anyway?

(c) Rav Yehudah Amar Rav discusses Hashem's forty-two letter Name. It is only taught to people who are discreet and humble, and who have reached the age of thirty-five.
Which ...

  1. ... other three requirements are needed for a person to be eligible?
  2. ... two requirements are needed in order to be beloved above and well-liked below?
(d) Which other advantages does one gain from this knowledge, besides the fact that people stand in awe of one?
(a) Shmuel quoting his grandfather, declares that all families in Bavel are presumed Kasher until proven Pasul.
What does he say about the families ...
  1. ... of other lands?
  2. ... of Eretz Yisrael?
(b) What problem do we have with this latter statement?

(c) Rav Huna bar Tachlifa in the name of Rav resolves the discrepancy 'Ka'an Lehasi'o Ishah, Ka'an Lehotzi Ishah mi'Yado'.
What does he mean by that?

Answers to questions



(a) How did Rav Yosef determine that someone came from Bavel?

(b) When did that method of determining become obsolete?

(c) Why did Zeiri decline to marry Rebbi Yochanan's daughter?

(d) What did Rebbi Yochanan once comment to Zeiri, as the latter was carrying him across the river?

(a) What was the basis of Rebbi Yochanan's opinion (that the Yichus of Bavel was no better than that of Eretz Yisrael)?

(b) His mistake lay in that he had not heard the statement of his Talmid Rebbi Elazar.
What did Rebbi Elazar say?

(c) To what did Rav Yehudah attribute the fact that his son Rav Yitzchak was still single, despite the fact that he was of eligible age?

(d) What was Ula's response to that?

(a) On what grounds do we reject the suggestion that Ula was referring to the Pasuk in Eichah "Nashim be'Tzi'on Inu"?

(b) So we establish his source as being the Pasuk in Amos "ha'Shochvim al Mitos Shein, u'Seruchim al Arsosam".
On what grounds does Rebbi Avahu reject Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Chanina's explanation that the Pasuk refers to the people who used to urinate in front of their beds naked?

(c) So how does Rebbi Avahu (and Ula) establish it?

(a) What advice did Ula finally give Rav Yehudah?

(b) How would they test for Yichus in Eretz Yisrael?

(c) What do we mean when we say 'Rav Ikla le'Bei bar Shefi (or 'le'Bei Shichla) u'Badak B'hu'? What did he say?

(d) How do both Rav Yehudah Amar Rav and Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi explain two feuding families that just cannot make peace with each other?

(a) What does Rav Papa mean when he says ...
  1. ... 'Bavel B'riah'?
  2. ... 'Meishan Miysah'?
  3. ... 'Madai Choleh'?
  4. ... 'Eilam Goseses'?
(b) Bavel basically lay between two rivers; the Diglas (alias the Chidekel) to the east and the P'ras (the Euphrates) to the west. Eretz Yisrael was south (south-west) of Bavel.
In which direction did the P'ras flow?

(c) According to Rav, Bavel extended in the north, to the east of the River Diglas, as far as the River Azak and to the south (of the River) until Baghdad and Avna; whereas according to Shmuel it extended further eastwards (in the north) to the River Yuni and further south to as far as Mushchani. What are the ramifications of their Machlokes?

(d) We amend the statement 've'Lo Mushchani bi'Ch'lal' to 'u'Mushchani bi'Ch'lal', because of a statement of Rebbi Chiya bar Aba Amar Shmuel. What did Rebbi Chiya bar Aba Amar Shmuel say about the Yichus of Mushchani?

(a) Bavel in the north stretched as far as the lower Apamya. Knowing that there were two Apamyas, was the lower Apamya within the border or outside it? Where then, was the upper Apamya?

(b) Considering that the two Apamyas were no more than one Parsah apart, why would they not even borrow a light from one another?

(c) What is the sign to remember which Apamya was Pasul?

(a) The Western border was basically, the River P'ras, and here too, Rav and Shmuel argue over the southern extremity; Rav says 'until Akra de'Tulbanki' 'ad Gishra de'Bei P'ras.
Which was further south?

(b) Why did Rav Yosef curse the opinion of Rav? At first glance, does he mean to preclude that of Shmuel?

(c) Alternatively, we explain, the position of the bridge was changed. What do we mean by that?

(d) A third opinion is that of Rebbi Yochanan, who places the south-western extremity as the crossing of Gizma.
Where is that in comparison to the opinions of Rav and Shmuel, further north or further south?

(a) The elite of Pumbedisa used to marry into families from Biyram.
Where was Biyram

(b) What did Rav Yosef prove to Abaye from there?

(c) Why do we not query the status of people who lived 'below' (north of) the River P'ras?

Answers to questions

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