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Kidushin 64

KIDUSHIN 61-65 - Ari Kornfeld has generously sponsored the Dafyomi publications for these Dafim for the benefit of Klal Yisrael.


(a) If a man declares 'Kidashti es Biti ha'Ketanah, Kidashtihah ve'Gerashtihah', when is he believed, and when is he not?

(b) How will the Din differ in the Seifa, where the father says 'Nishbis u'Tehorah Hi'?

(c) What are the Halachic ramifications whether we believe the father or not?

(d) What reason do we initially give for the distinction between the Reisha and the Seifa?

(a) We just explained that in the Reisha, once the daughter has become a Gedolah, the father is no longer believed to say that he betrothed her and divorced her when she was a Ketanah, because it is no longer be'Yado.
Why, in the Seifa, is he not believed on the grounds that he could marry her ...
  1. ... to a Chalal?
  2. ... to a Mamzer?
  3. ... to marry her off and receive her Get (which is how we currently explain the Seifa of the Reisha anyway)?
(b) What does Rebbi Sima'i learn from the Pasuk in Emor (written in connection with Almanah le'Kohen Gadol) "Lo Yikach ... ve'Lo Yechalel"?

(c) Nevertheless (in spite of Rebbi Sima'i), the Tana of our Mishnah, does not believe the father (on the grounds that, assuming that she is an Almanah, he could have married her off to a Kohen Gadol [or a Gerushah, to a Kohen Hedyot]) since he holds like Rebbi Yeshevav.
What does Rebbi Yeshevav (explaining Rebbi Akiva's opinion) say?

(d) Does Rebbi Yeshevav himself agree with this?

(a) This answer will only work however, on the assumption that Rebbi Yeshevav is expressing his own opinion, but not if he is coming merely to counter Rebbi Sima'i.
What does this mean?

(b) What problem will this leave us with?

(c) In any event, Rav Ashi concludes, the very concept of 'be'Yado' was really a misconception.
How does he refute ...

  1. ... first be'Yado le'Garshah'?
  2. ... and then even 'be'Yado le'Kadshah?
(a) Rav Ashi therefore bases the distinction between the Reisha and the Seifa on Rav Huna Amar Rav.
What does Rav Huna Amar Rav learn from the Pasuk in Ki Seitzei ...
  1. ... "es Biti Nasati"?
  2. ... "la'Ish ha'Zeh"?
(b) How does Rav Ashi subsequently differentiate between the Reisha ('Kidashtihah ve'Gerashtihah') and the Seifa ('Nishbis u'Fedisihah')?

(c) On what grounds is a father believed to say 'Kidashtihah ve'Gerashtihah' (seeing as the Pasuk "es Biti Nasati ... " deals with Kidushin (exclusively)?

(d) Then why is the father not believed in the Seifa de'Reisha, if his daughter turned a Bogeres"?

(a) What distinction does the Tana of our Mishnah draw between a man who declares on his death-bed, that he has sons and one who declares that he has brothers?

(b) What are the ramifications of the fact that he has ...

  1. ... sons?
  2. ... brothers?
(c) We try to establish our Mishnah not like Rebbi Nasan, but like Rebbi. What does Rebbi rule ...
  1. ... in a case where a man declared at the time of his betrothal that *he has sons* (in which case his wife is therefore not subject to Yibum), and just before he died, he says that *he does not* (in which case she is) and...
  2. ... in a case where he first declares that *he has no brothers* (in which case his wife is not subject to Yibum), and then declares that *he has* (in which case she is)?
(d) Rebbi Nasan disagrees with Rebbi.
What does he say?
(a) How does Rava attempt to reconcile Rebbi Nasan with our Mishnah? On what grounds might Rebbi Nasan concede there to Rebbi and rule leniently in both cases?

(b) Abaye disagrees with Rava.
How does he counter Rava's reasoning?

(c) To reconcile our Mishnah with Rebbi Nasan, Abaye establishes it when there is no Chazakah whatsoever, and the Beraisa, when there is.
Why then, in the Mishnah, is the man ...

  1. ... believed when he declares on his death-bed 'Yesh Li Banim?
  2. ... not believed when he declares 'Yesh Li Achim'?
Answers to questions



(a) And he establishes the Beraisa when there is a Chazakah that he has brothers.
What sort of Chazakah are we talking about, Eidim?

(b) What does Abaye mean when he ...

  1. ... refers to 'Mah Lo le'Shaker' (in connection with the husband)?
  2. ... explains that Rebbi holds 'Mah Lo le'Shaker' ke'Eidim Dami'?
(c) What does Rebbi Nasan then hold? What is the basis of their Machlokes?

(d) In that case, what is the significance of the fact that he retracted on his death-bed (and stated 'Yesh Li Achi')? What would the Din have been he not done so?

(a) The Tana of our Mishnah states 'ha'Mekadesh es Bito S'tam, Ein ha'Bogros bi'Chelal'.
Why is that?

(b) Assuming that he has daughters from two consecutive wives, and he declared 'Kidashti es Biti ha'Gedolah' all his daughters are now Safek Mekudashos, except for the youngest, according to Rebbi Meir.
What is that?

(c) What does Rebbi Yossi say?

(d) And which of his daughters will be forbidden, if he declared 'Kidashti es Biti ha'Ketanah', according to ...

  1. ... Rebbi Meir?
  2. ... Rebbi Yossi?
(a) We infer from 'Ein ha'Bogros bi'Chelal', that all the Ketanos are included, even though he cannot live with any of them.
Why not?

(b) How do we reject the proof from here that 'Kidushin she'Ein Mesurin le'Bi'ah, Havu Kidushin (like Abaye in the previous Perek)? How do we establish the Mishnah?

(c) If so, why does the Tana say 'Bogros' (in the plural)?

(d) In that case, it seems obvious that the father betrothed the Ketanah and not the Bogeres (who is not under his jurisdiction anyway).
What is the Tana then coming to teach us, assuming that ...

  1. ... the Bogeres merely appointed her father to be her Sheli'ach?
  2. ... she even permitted him to pocket the Kesef Kidushin?
10) Having taught us the Din of ...
  1. ... 'Biti ha'Gedolah', why does the Tana find it necessary to repeat that of 'Biti ha'Ketanah'?
  2. ... 'Biti ha'Ketanah', why does the Tana find it necessary to repeat that of 'Biti ha'Gedolah'?
(a) What does the Mishnah in Nedarim rule in a case where someone declares a Neder forbidding something ...
  1. ... 'ad ha'Pesach'?
  2. ... 'ad she'Yehei ha'Pesach'?
(b) If he said 'ad P'nei ha'Pesach', Rebbi Meir compares it to 'ad ha'Pesach'.
What does Rebbi Yossi say?

(c) What is the basis of their Machlokes?

(d) How does Rebbi Chanina bar Avdimi Amar Rav reconcile their respective opinions with what they say in our Mishnah? How do we know which Mishnah to amend?

(a) Abaye establishes the case of 'Biti ha'Gedolah' in our Mishnah specifically when there are two sets of daughters from two wives.
Why is that? What will the Din then be when there is only one set from one wife?

(b) And Abaye maintains that the middle daughter in one set is called 'Emtza'is' and is not included 'Gedolah' or 'Ketanah'.
How does he then explain why Rebbi Meir in our Mishnah forbids all the daughters of both groups except the very youngest.
Why does he not also permit the middle daughters in the second set?

(c) How does he prove this? What ought the Tana to have otherwise said?

(d) How does he then go on to explain why the Tana doesn't mention the middle daughter in the first set either, even though it is obvious that she is included in the Safek (because she is big compared to all those in the second set)?

(a) What did Rav Huna B'rei de'Rav Yehoshua ask Rava from the Mishnah re. 'ad P'nei Pesach, on Abaye, who restricts the Machlokes between Rebbi Meir and Rebbi Yossi in our Mishnah to when there are two sets of daughters?

(b) What did Rava reply?

Answers to questions

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