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Kidushin 54

KIDUSHIN 51-55 - Ari Kornfeld has generously sponsored the Dafyomi publications for these Dafim for the benefit of Klal Yisrael.


(a) What does Rav mean when he states that he did not find anywhere that according to Rebbi Meir 'Hekdesh be'Shogeg Ein Mischalel, be'Meizid Mis'chalel'? With whom is he coming to argue?

(b) Then how does Rav explain Rebbi Meir in our Mishnah, who says 'be'Shogeg, Lo Kidesh'?

(c) Why should shirts that are wearable be any different than their counterparts that have worn out in this regard?

(a) The Tana Kama in the Beraisa holds 'Mo'alin be'Chadtin, ve'Ein Mo'alin ba'Atikin'.
What are ...
  1. ... 'Chadtin'?
  2. ... 'Atikin'? What else was the money known as?
(b) What was the money used for?
(a) How do we amend the Beraisa, where Rebbi Meir says 'Mo'alin ba'Atikin ... ', in spite of the S'vara 'Lo Nitnah Torah le'Mal'achei ha'Sha'res'?

(b) According to Rebbi Yehudah, how can the Kohanim possibly avoid being Mo'el on the Bigdei Kehunah?

(c) And how do we amend the Beraisa where Rebbi Meir includes stones that fell from the walls of Yerushalayim in the Dinim of Me'ilah?

(d) What is the problem with establishing these Beraisos like Rebbi Yehudah, considering that the Sheyarei ha'Lishkah was used for the walls of Yerushalayim?

(a) According to the Tana Kama in the Mishnah in Nedarim, what do the following have in common 'ke'Imra, ke'Dirim, ke'Eitzim, ke'Ishim, ke'Heichal, ke'Mizbe'ach, ki'Yerushalayim'?

(b) What is ...

  1. ... 'ke'Imra'?
  2. ... 'ke'Dirim'?
(c) Why can we not ascribe Rebbi Yehudah's statement there 'Yerushalayim, Lo Amar K'lum' to the fact that he did not say 'ki'Yerushalayim' (and not because Yerushalayim is not Kadosh)?

(d) So how do we reconcile Rebbi Yehudah who, on the one hand, includes the walls of Yerushalayim among those things that are subject to Me'ilah and on the other, does not consider Yerushalayim to be a Davar ha'Nadur (because it is not Kadosh)?

Answers to questions



(a) On what grounds do we refute Ula Amar bar Pada's initial contention that when Rebbi Meir says 'Hekdesh be'Shogeg Mis'chalel', he is referring exclusively, to the obligation to bring a Korban, but the money remains Hekdesh?

(b) How does Ravin citing Rebbi Meir, qualify 'Shogeg be'Shogeg, Mis'chalel'?

(c) Does this mean that Me'ilah is confined to the realm of food?

(a) Like whom does Rav Nachman Amar Rav Ada bar Ahavah rule with re. to ...
  1. ... Ma'aser Sheini (like Rebbi Meir ['Bein be'Shogeg, Bein be'Meizid, Lo Kidesh'] or Rebbi Yehudah ['be'Shogeg Lo Kidesh, be'Meizid Kidesh'])?
  2. ... Hekdesh ('be'Meizid Kidesh, be'Shogeg Lo Kidesh' [like Rebbi Meir] or 'be'Shogeg Kidesh, be'Meizid Lo Kidesh' [like Rebbi Yehudah])?
(b) What reason does he initially give for both of these ruling?

(c) He rules like Rebbi Meir, because of the S'tam Mishnah in Ma'aser Sheini. Beis Shamai rule there 'Kerem Revai Ein Lo Chomesh, ve'Ein Lo Biy'ur; Beis Hillel rule 'Yesh Lo'.
What is the basis of their Machlokes?
From where do Beis Hillel derive their opinion?

(d) What do they hold with re. to the Peret and Olelos of a Kerem Revai?
What are 'Peret' and 'Olelos'? Like which other Tana do Beis Hillel hold?

(a) What does a S'tam Mishnah in Me'ilah say in the case where a treasurer of Hekdesh sent Hekdesh money with a Pike'ach to buy something, and he remembered that it was Hekdesh before the Sheli'ach reached the store-keeper? Who is guilty of Me'ilah?

(b) What do we prove from there?

(a) Why would the author of the S'tam Mishnah 'ha'Podeh Ma'aser Sheini she'Lo, Mosif Alav Chamishiso Bein mi'Shelo, Bein she'Nitan Lo be'Matanah' appear to be Rebbi Yehudah (who holds 'Ma'aser Mamon Hedyot')? Why not Rebbi Meir?

(b) How does establishing the Mishnah when the owner gave the Ma'aser when it was still together with the Tevel help establish it even like Rebbi Meir?

(c) We ask a similar Kashya from the S'tam Mishnah in Ma'aser Sheini 'ha'Podeh Neta Revai she'Lo Mosif Alav Chamishiso, Bein mi'Shelo, Bein she'Nitan Lo be'Matanah' (which appears to go like Rebbi Yehudah).
How does establishing the Mishnah when the owner gave the Ma'aser when it was still S'mader (in the first stages of fruit) help establish it even like Rebbi Meir?

(d) Why can this not go like Rebbi Yossi?

(a) What does the S'tam Mishnah in Ma'aser Sheini say in a case where someone purchased Ma'aser to the value of a Sela, but before he managed to pay for it, the price rose to two? How much is the purchaser obligated to pay the owner?

(b) Why must the author of this Mishnah be Rebbi Yehudah? How much would he have to pay according to Rebbi Meir?

(c) How do we try and reconcile the fact that we now have a S'tam Mishnah regarding Ma'aser like Rebbi Yehudah, with Rav Nachman, who rules like Rebbi Meir by Ma'aser only because his opinion is backed by a S'tam Mishnah?

(d) In spite of the S'vara 'Mah Li Chad S'tama, Mah Li T'rei S'tama', on what grounds does Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak substantiate Rav Nachman's ruling? What does 'Bechirta' mean?

Answers to questions

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