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Kidushin 33

KIDUSHIN 32-35 - Ari Kornfeld has generously sponsored the Dafyomi publications for these Dafim for the benefit of Klal Yisrael.


(a) We mentioned earlier that Kiymah does not involve a loss of pocket. Why can we not be speaking about a diamond cutter, in which case standing up for someone might be quite an expensive business?

(b) What important Halachah do we extrapolate from the fact that one is not obligated to incur any loss when rising for a Talmid-Chacham?

(a) What did the tradesmen used to do when a group of people would arrive in Yerushalayim with their Bikurim? What would they say?

(b) Rebbi Yochanan says simply 'Mipneihem Omdin, Mipnei Talmidei-Chachamim Ein Omdin'. What reason does Rebbi Yossi bar Avin give to explain the former?

(c) On what grounds do we reject Rebbi Yossi bar Avin's reason? What might the Chachamim have been afraid of that caused them to issue such a decree?

(a) On what grounds did Rebbi Shimon bar Rebbi complain to his father once about Rebbi Chiya, and on another occasion about bar Kapara (or Rebbi Shmuel bar Rebbi Yossi)?

(b) He based his complaint against Rebbi Chiya on the fact that he had taught him two out of the five Sefarim of Tehilim.
And what had he taught bar Kapara, that caused him to be upset with him for not showing him respect?

(c) What was Rebbi's response to his son's accusations? How did he defend those great sages?

(d) If not for that, Rebbi would have agreed that one is obligated to show respect even in a bath-house.
How do we reconcile this with what we learned earlier that one is exempt from demonstrating respect in a bathroom or a bathhouse?

(a) We try and prove the distinction between the inner rooms and the outer ones by quoting Rabah bar bar Chanah Amar Rebbi Yochanan.
What did he say about thinking about words of Torah? Where is this forbidden?

(b) On what grounds do we then initially think that this proves our point?

(c) How do we refute this proof?

(a) We learned earlier that ...
  1. ... "Takum ... ve'Yareisa" comes to preclude from the notion that one may close one's eyes as if one had not seen the Talmid-Chacham approaching.
    Do we really need a Pasuk to teach us not to be wicked? What is the Pasuk really coming to teach us?
  2. ... "Takum ve'Hadarta" comes to restrict the obligation to stand up, to where the act will be appreciated.
    What is the maximum distance that falls into this category?
(b) Abaye qualified this Halachah, confining it to a Talmid rising for a regular Rav, but not for a Rebbe Muvhak (who taught him most of what he knows).
At what distance ...
  1. ... is a Talmid obligated to stand up for his Rebbe Muvhak?
  2. ... would Abaye himself stand up for Rav Yosef?
(c) Where were Rav Mesharshaya and the Rabbanan when Abaye rode past on his donkey?

(d) Why did they fail to stand up for their Rebbi Muvhak?

(a) We quoted Rebbi Shimon, who learned from "Zakein ve'Yareisa" that a Talmid-Chacham should avoid troubling the community to make them stand.
What did Abaye and Rebbi Zeira therefore used to do?

(b) What is the reward for doing this?

(c) What did Rav Yirmiyah from Difti comment to Ravina when a man walked past with his head uncovered?

(d) What did Ravina reply?

(a) We cited earlier the Machlokes whether one is obligated to stand up for a sinful elder (Isi ben Yehudah) or not (the Chachamim).
Like whom does Rebbi Yochanan rule?

(b) On what basis would Rebbi Yochanan stand up even for an old Nochri?

(c) What would Rava do in the same case?

(d) Rava would give a hand to old men.
What would Abaye and Rav Nachman do? What reason did Rav Nachman give for this?

Answers to questions



(a) On what basis did Rebbi Ayvu Amar Rebbi Yanai forbid a Talmid-Chacham to stand up for his Rebbe more than twice a day, once in the morning and once in the evening.

(b) How do we try and prove Rebbi Yanai wrong from Rebbi Shimon ben Elazar, who expects a Talmid-Chacham to try and avoid forcing the community to stand up?

(c) How do we refute this Kashya?

(a) We learn from the Pasuk in Koheles "ve'Tov Lo Yihyeh la'Rasha ve'Lo Ya'arich Yamim ke'Tzeil Asher Einenu Yarei mi'Lifnei ha'Elokim", that a Talmid-Chacham who fails to stand up for his Rebbe is called 'a Rasha'. Which other two penalties emerge from this Pasuk?

(b) Rebbi Elazar concludes that the Pasuk is referring to this sin from the 'Gezeirah-Shavah' "P'nei" "P'nei" ("mi'Lifnei" and "Mipnei Seivah Takum"). On what grounds do we reject the initial 'Gezeirah-Shavah' "Yarei" "Yarei" ("Einenu Yarei" and "ve'Yareisa me'Elokecha")? To which two other sins might this refer?

(c) We ask whether a son who is his father's Rebbe is obligated to rise for his father. On what grounds do we refute the proof from Shmuel, who instructed Rav Yehudah to rise for Rav Yechezkel?

(d) Then what was the point in his telling Rav Yehudah that? What was the Chidush?

(a) We then ask whether a father is obligated to stand up for his son who is also his Rebbe, and we try to resolve this She'eilah from Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi.
Considering that he was both his son's father and his Rebbe, why did he used to rise for his son?

(b) How do we initially understand his statement 'Ani Eini K'dai La'amod Mipnei B'ni Ela Mipnei Kavod Beis Nasi'? What do we then infer from there?

(c) On what grounds do we refute that proof? What did Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi really mean to say?

(d) We ask whether 'Rachuv ki'Mehalech Dami' or not.
What are the ramifications of this She'eilah?

(a) Abaye resolves this She'eilah from a Mishnah in Nega'im.
What does the Tana say if ...
  1. ... the Metzora was sitting under a tree and the Tahor person was standing still?
  2. ... the Metzora was standing and the Tahor person was sitting?
  3. ... in the latter case, the Metzora sat down?
(b) What does the Tana mean when he concludes 've'Chein be'Even ha'Menuga'as'? How do we resolve our She'eilah from there?

(c) How do Rebbi Chilkiyah, Rebbi Si'mon and Rebbi Elazar resolve the She'eilah whether one is obligated to stand up for a Sefer-Torah?

(a) What did Rebbi Ila'i and Rebbi Ya'akov bar Zavdi do when Rebbi Shimon bar Aba walked past?

(b) The latter objected on two scores. Firstly because he was only a Chaver whereas they were Chachamim.
What was the basis of his second objection?

(a) The Torah writes "ve'Hibitu Acharei Moshe ad Bo'o ha'Ohelah". Rebbi Ami and Rebbi Yitzchak Nafcha argue whether this refers to Moshe's praise, or whether it is meant derogatively.
What would it refer to if it was ...
  1. ... derogatory?
  2. ... praiseworthy?
(b) This is actually based on a set of rulings by Chizkiyah ... Amar Rebbi Avdimi de'Min Cheifah. According to him, one is obligated to stand up when a Chacham arrives within one's four Amos.
When is he required to stand up for an Av Beis-Din or a Nasi?

(c) We have already explained that, for a Nasi, one must remain standing until he arrives at his destination.
How long must he remain standing for a Chacham or an Av Beis-Din?

Answers to questions

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