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Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Kidushin 32

KIDUSHIN 32-35 - Ari Kornfeld has generously sponsored the Dafyomi publications for these Dafim for the benefit of Klal Yisrael.


(a) They asked with whose money a son is obligated to honor his parents, with his own or only with his parents'. Rav Yehudah says with his own money ('mi'Shel Ben' - see Tosfos DH 'Rav').
What does Rav Nasan bar Oshaya say?

(b) With which opinion did the Rabbanan indicate to Rav Yirmiyah (or to Rav Yirmiyah's son) that they concur?

(c) In which regard does the Tana of the Beraisa explain the comparison between honoring one's parents ("Kabeid es Avicha ... ) and honoring Hashem ("Kabeid es Hashem me'Honach")?

(d) How will Rav Nasan bar Oshaya explain this Beraisa?

(a) We learned in a Beraisa that two brothers, two partners, a father and a son or a Rebbe and his Talmid may feed each other Ma'aser Sheini.
What does the Tana mean? Since when is eating Ma'aser Sheini restricted to the owner?

(b) What else does the Tana permit them to feed each other?

(c) We ask how, according to Rav Yehudah (who holds 'mi'Shel Ben') the Tana could possibly permit a son to feed his father Ma'aser Ani.
Why should he not?

(d) How do we therefore establish the Beraisa according to Rav Yehudah?

(a) Seeing as the Tana is speaking about extra meals (which the son is not obligated to provide his parents), why does Rebbi Yehudah in the Beraisa then add that a son who does this will be cursed?

(b) They asked Rebbi Eliezer the extent of Kibud Av va'Eim.
What was his reply?

(c) According to Rav Huna bar Nasan, who holds 'mi'Shel Av', Rebbi Eliezer must be speaking when the purse belongs to the father or mother.
In that case, what is the Chidush?

(a) What did Rav Huna once do in the presence of his son Rabah, to test his Midos?

(b) How did he avoid the problem of ...

  1. ... "Lifnei Iver Lo Sitein Michshol" (which forbids one Jew to cause another Jew to sin)?
  2. ... 'Bal Tashchis' (the prohibition to destroy something that is useful)?
(c) Then maybe that is why Rabah did not get angry?
(a) Rav Yechezkel taught his son Rav Yehudah (the Talmid of Rav) a Beraisa 'ha'Nisrafin be Niskalin, Rebbi Shimon Omer Yadunu bi'Sekilah, she'ha'Sereifah Chamurah'.
Which form of death is more stringent according to Rebbi Shimon?

(b) What problem did Rav Yehudah have with his father's statement?

(c) What did Rav Yehudah say to his father in addressing the problem?

(d) How did he ...

  1. ... amend the statement to read?
  2. ... explain the Seifa, where the Chachamim state 'Yadunu bi'S'reifah, she'Sekilah Chamurah'? According to Rav Yehudah's version of the Reisha, one can now ask exactly the same Kashya here, that he asked there (The Tana could now have given the reason as the fact that the majority of the animals are 'Nisrafin')?
(a) Why did Shmuel rebuke his Talmid Rav Yehudah? What did he say wrong?

(b) According to the Tana of the Beraisa, how does one correct one's father?
On what grounds do we reject even the original wording of the Beraisa 'Aba, Kach Kasuv ba'Torah'?

(c) In the same Beraisa, what does Elazar ben Masya say one should do if one's father asks for a drink of water, at a time when there is another Mitzvah waiting to be performed?

(d) Rav Masna however, rules like Isi ben Yehudah there.
What does Isi ben Yehudah say?

(a) Rav Chisda is quoted as saying that whereas a father has the right to forego his honor, a Rav does not.
What does Rav Yosef say?

(b) Rav Yosef learned this from the Pasuk in Beshalach "va'Hashem Holech Lifneihem Yomam ... ".
On what grounds did Rava ...

  1. ... initially object to Rav Yosef's proof?
  2. ... later concede that he was right? Which Pasuk in Tehilim did he bring in support of this?
Answers to questions



(a) What was the difference between the reactions of Rav Papa and Rav Huna B'rei de'Rav Yehoshua on the one hand, and Rav Mari and Rav Pinchas B'rei de'Rav Mari on the other, when Rava served them drinks at his son's wedding?

(b) What problem do we have with Rava, who became angry at the latter's lack of response?

(c) How do we resolve this problem?

(d) Who else had the same experience as Rava and reacted in the same way?

(a) What distinction does Rav Ashi draw between a Rav who foregoes his honor and a Nasi?

(b) What did Rebbi Yehoshua do that surprised Rebbi Eliezer at the wedding feast of Raban Gamliel's son?

(c) What did Rebbi Yehoshua reply? Who was the person who was even greater than Raban Gamliel who had done likewise?

(d) How do we know that he did not do that merely because his guests were angels?

(a) Rebbi Tzadok was surprised at Rebbi Yehoshua's proof from Avraham Avinu, when he could have brought a proof from 'someone' who is greater still.
Who is that?

(b) This Beraisa, which clearly permits a Nasi to forego his honor, forces us to amend Rav Ashi's initial statement.
How do we now present Rav Ashi's distinction?

(c) What do we learn from the Pasuk in Shoftim "Som Tasim Alecha Melech"?

(a) The Torah writes in Kedoshim "Mipnei Seivah Takum".
What does the insertion of the word "Zakein" ("ve'Hadarta P'nei Zakein") teach us, according to the Tana Kama?

(b) How does Rebbi Yossi Hagelili interpret "Zakein"? What is its acronym?

(c) What is the difference between the two opinions?

(a) We learn three things from the juxtaposition of "Takum" next to "ve'Hadarta". The last of these is that one only needs to stand up in a place where it is an honor for the person concerned, but not in a bathroom or a bathhouse.
Besides that, what do we learn about ...
  1. ... Kiymah from the word "ve'Hadarta"?
  2. ... Hidur from the word "Takum"?
(b) Why does the Torah conclude with the words "ve'Yareisa me'Elokecha"?

(c) What does Rebbi Shimon ben Elazar learn from the juxtaposition of "Zakein" to "ve'Yareisa"?

(d) Isi ben Yehudah is more stringent than the Tana Kama.
How does he interpret "Mipnei Seivah Takum"? To what sort of Seivah is the Pasuk referring?

(a) We learned earlier that, according to Rebbi Yossi Hagelili, one is even obligated to stand up for a young Talmid-Chacham.
On what grounds does he interpret "ve'Hadarta P'nei Zakein" to refer to a young Talmid-Chacham, and that "Zakein" does not go hand in hand with "Seivah", written earlier in the Pasuk?

(b) So how does he interpret the entire Pasuk, bearing in mind that "Takum ve'Hadarta" is only written once?

(c) How does the Tana Kama counter Rebbi Yossi Hagelili's proof? Why does the Torah not place "Seivah" and "Zakein" next to each other?

(d) And how does the Tana Kama prove that "Zakein" *must* refer to "Seivah", rather than being an independent word?

Answers to questions

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