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Kidushin 9

KIDUSHIN 7-10 - Dedicated by an admirer of the work of the Dafyomi Advancement Forum, l'Iluy Nishmas Mrs. Gisela (Golda bas Reb Chaim Yitzchak Ozer) Turkel, A"H.


(a) The Gemara relates an incident concerning a man who was selling tin buttons, according to some.
What was he selling, according to others?

(b) How would the salesman present them?

(c) How did the salesman in question respond when a certain woman asked him for one?

(d) How did Rav Chama interpret her response 'Havah Meihavah!'?

(a) In two similar incidents, Rav Chama and Rav Z'vid respectively interpreted similar responses in the same way.
What did the woman say to the man ...
  1. ... in the second incident, when he issued her with the same ultimatum in exchange for a glass of beer?
  2. ... in the third incident, when he issued her with the same ultimatum in exchange for two dates?
(b) In the last of these incidents, what was the man doing with the dates?

(c) Ravina maintains that the woman would have been Mekudeshes had she not repeated the words ('Havah Meihavah', 'Ashkuyei Ashpayan', 'Shadi Mishda'). What did Rav Sama bar Raksa exclaim when he heard this?

(d) We finally issue rulings in the following four cases.
What is the Halachah regarding ...

  1. ... the previous case, where the woman did not repeat her retort?
  2. ... an object of Kidushin that was not assessed prior to the Kidushin?
  3. ... where the man said 'Hiskadshi Li be'Manah', and gave her a Dinar?
  4. ... where the man said 'Hiskadshi Li be'Manah', and gave her a Mashkon?
(a) What does one write on the Sh'tar Kidushin of a girl whose father is marrying her off? On what material does one write it?

(b) Does it matter if the Sh'tar is not worth a P'rutah?

(c) What observation does Rebbi Zeira bar Mamal make regarding the distinction between a Sh'tar of sale and a Sh'tar of Kidushin?

(d) How does Rava initially explain this distinction, based on the Pesukim "u'Machar me'Achuzaso" (Behar) on the one hand, and "Ki Yikach Ish Ishah" (Ki Seitzei) on the other?

(a) How do we attempt to 'amend' the phrase in Yirmiyah "Sados ba'Kesef Yiknu" in view of of the above-mentioned Pasuk in Behar?

(b) Based on this amendment, how do we refute Rava's initial proof from "Ki Yikach Ish Ishah", in view of the Pasuk "es Biti Nasati la'Ish ha'Zeh"?

(c) So o what does Rava finally base the distinction between a Sh'tar Mecher and a Sh'tar Kidushin?

(d) And how does he then justify his original quotations?

(a) Alternatively, Rava quotes another Pasuk in Yirmiyah "va'Ekach es Sefer ha'Miknah".
What does that prove?

(b) Up to when does a father have jurisdiction over his daughter's Kidushin?

(c) Is her Kidushin valid if she accepts the Kidushin herself?

(d) Is the Kidushin of a Bogeres valid if her father accepts her Kidushin?

(a) From where do we know that a Get must be written Lishmah (in the name of the woman whom the husband intends to divorce)?

(b) Resh Lakish asked whether a Sh'tar Kidushin is Kasher if it was written she'Lo Lishmah.
On what basis might it be ...

  1. ... Kasher?
  2. ... Pasul?
(c) What did Resh Lakish himself decide?
Answers to questions



(a) According to Rava and Ravina, if the man wrote the Sh'tar Kidushin Lishmah, but without the woman's consent, the Kidushin is Kasher.
What do Rav Papa and Rav Sheravya say?

(b) Rav Papa explains the reasons of their respective opinions, which are both based on the Hekesh of 'Havayah' to 'Yetzi'ah'. Rava and Ravina's reason is because a Get too, is written Lishmah but without the woman's consent.
What is the reason of Rav Papa and Rav Sheravya?

(c) According to Rava and Ravina, when the Tana of the Beraisa says 'Ein Kosvin Sh'tarei Eirusin ve'Nisu'in Ela mi'Da'as Sheneihem', what does he mean by 'Sh'tarei Eirusin'?

(d) How does Rav Gidal Amar Rav explain 'Sh'tarei P'sikta'? Why do they not require a Kinyan?

(a) What does Rebbi Avahu Amar Rebbi Yochanan learn from the Pasuk in Ki Seitzei "Ki Yimatzei Ish Shochev Im Ishah "*Be'ulas Ba'al*"?

(b) Rebbi Zeira asked Rebbi Avahu (or Resh Lakish, Rebbi Yochanan) what was wrong with Rebbi, who learned it from the Pasuk there "Ki Yikach Ish Ishah u'Be'alah".
What did he reply?

(c) If Bi'ah does indeed acquire only after Kidushin, what problem does this pose on a Na'arah ha'Me'urasah, who is sentenced to Sekilah?

(d) On what grounds did Abaye object to the Rabbanan's answer to this Kashya (that the Parshah of Na'arah ha'Me'urasah speaks when the Arus performed Bi'ah with her she'Lo ke'Darkah, which does not remove her virginity, and does therefore, render her a 'Be'ulah')?

(a) According to the Tana Kama of the Beraisa, if ten men have relations with a Na'arah ha'Me'urasah she'Lo ke'Darkah, they are all Chayav Sekilah. What does Rebbi say?

(b) Having just established that even Rebbi will concede that her husband makes her a Be'ulah she'Lo ke'Darkah, Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak establishes the case of Na'arah ha'Me'urasah by Kidushei Sh'tar.
Why should Kidushei Sh'tar be any better than Kidushei Kesef or Bi'ah in this regard?

(c) Rebbi Yochanan learns from "u'Be'alah" that one can acquire a woman with Kidushei Bi'ah, but not an Amah Ivri'ah. We suggest that we would otherwise have learned an Amah Ivri'ah from a 'Kal va'Chomer' from Yevamah.
Which 'Kal va'Chomer'?

(d) On what grounds do we refute this suggestion?

(a) So we conclude that we would otherwise have learned Kidushei Bi'ah by an Amah Ivri'ah from "Acheres".
Who is Acheres? How would we have learned an Amah Ivri'ah from her?

(b) From where will Rebbi, who learns Kidushei Bi'ah from "u'Ba'alah", preclude an Amah Ivri'ah from the Din of Acheres?

(c) What did bar Ahina teach Rava from the Pasuk "Ki Yikach Ish Ishah u'Be'alah"?

(d) Then from where will *he* learn the previous D'rashah according to Rebbi?

Answers to questions

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