(Permission is granted to print and redistribute this material
as long as this header and the footer at the end are included.)


prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

Previous daf

Kidushin 8

KIDUSHIN 7-10 - Dedicated by an admirer of the work of the Dafyomi Advancement Forum, l'Iluy Nishmas Mrs. Gisela (Golda bas Reb Chaim Yitzchak Ozer) Turkel, A"H.


(a) What does the Beraisa extrapolate from the Pasuk in Behar (in connection with an Eved Ivri) "mi'Kesef Miknaso"?

(b) Why can this not mean that ...

  1. ... an Eved Ivri cannot be acquired with produce or vessels (based on the Pasuk there "Yashiv Ge'ulaso")?
  2. ... he cannot be acquired with produce or vessels that are worth less than a P'rutah?
(c) So how does Rav Yosef interpret the Beraisa? What does 'Eino Nikneh bi'Tevu'ah ve'Keilim' mean?

(d) And how does Rabah interpret it?

(a) What does Rav Nachman say about using Peiros for Chalipin?

(b) In that case, why can Rav Nachman not learn like Rabah's interpretation of the Beraisa?

(c) To avoid establishing Rav Nachman like Rav Yosef, we establish the Beraisa to mean 'Kesef ve'Keilim' that are worth less than a P'rutah.
How do we resolve the problem that we had with this earlier (that in this case, what is the Chidush of Kesef ve'Keilim)?

(a) What does the Tana of the Beraisa say with regard to someone who says to a Kohen ...
  1. ... 'Eigel Zeh le'Pidyon B'ni; Talis Zeh le'Pidyon B'ni'?
  2. ... 'Eigel Zeh be'Chamesh Sela'im le'Pidyon B'ni; Talis Zeh be'Chamesh Sela'im le'Pidyon B'ni'?
(b) How does Rav Yosef explain the Reisha of the Beraisa? What does he extrapolate from there?

(c) On what grounds does he decline to explain the Beraisa to mean that the calf or the cloak are really worth less than five Sela'im, but the father considers them to be worth that amount?

(a) How does Rabah establish the Beraisa?

(b) We prove this interpretation to be correct from Rav Kahana. What did Rav Kahana once say, after receiving a Sudar (a special head-gear worn by Talmidei-Chachamim) a Pidyon ha'Ben (see Tosfos DH 'Rav Kahana')?

(c) How did Rav Ashi qualify this Halachah? Why would Rav Kahana be different?

(d) We bear this out with an episode with Mar bar Rav Ashi, who paid for a Sudar worth ten Zuz far more than it was really worth.
How much did he pay for the Sudar that he bought from the mother of Rava from Kubi?

(a) Rebbi Elazar said that if someone betrothed a woman for a Manah, and at the time of the Kidushin, he gave her a Dinar, she is Mekudeshes.
On what condition is she Mekudeshes?

(b) What is the reason for this?

(c) What does the Beraisa say about someone who was counting out the Manah that he promised to give a woman as Kidushin?

(d) How do we reconcile this with Rebbi Elazar who considers her Mekudeshes immediately.

(a) What does the Seifa of the previous Beraisa say in a case where he said 'Manah Zu', and the Manah was subsequently found to contain ...
  1. ... a Dinar short or one copper Dinar?
  2. ... a poor-quality Dinar?
(b) Seeing as the Seifa speaks about 'Manah Zu', does this not imply that the Reisha speaks about a S'tam Dinar, reinstating the Kashya on Rebbi Elazar?

(c) We try and prove that the Reisha as well as the Seifa must be speaking about 'Manah Zu', because otherwise, having taught us that 'Manah S'tam' the Kidushin is not valid, then 'Kal va'Chomer' 'Manah Zu' and the Seifa would not be necessary.
On what grounds do we refute this proof?

(d) Rav Ashi establishes the Reisha by 'Manah S'tam'.
How does he then reconcile it with Rebbi Elazar?

(a) The Tana of the Beraisa invalidated the Kidushin, if one Dinar was found to be a copper one.
How come that she did not see it (in which case she would be Mekudeshes, because she accepted it)?

(b) Why does he then validate the Kidushin if one of the Dinrim was found to be a poor-quality one.
In what way is a poor-quality Dinar better than a copper one?

Answers to questions



(a) If a man says to a woman 'Hiskadshi Li be'Manah', says Rava quoting Rav Nachman, and leaves her a Mashkon (collateral), she is not Mekudeshes.
Why not?

(b) We reconcile this with the Beraisa which says 'Kidshah be'Mashkon, Mekudeshes', by citing Rebbi Yitzchak.
What does Rebbi Yitzchak say about acquiring a Mashkon?

(c) How does he extrapolate this from the Pasuk in Ki Seitzei "u'Lecha Tihyeh Tzedakah"? What is the Pasuk referring to?

(d) How does Rebbi Yitzchak's statement enable us to answer Rava's Kashya on Rav Nachman from the Beraisa?

(a) The sons of Rav Chiya bar Avin had no money with which to pay for the Shifchah they had purchased.
What did they give the seller as a Mashkon?

(b) On what grounds did the seller subsequently retract?

(c) What did Rebbi Ami rule when they tried to stop him from retracting?

(a) What does the Beraisa rule in the case of a woman who took the money that a man gave her for Kidushin and threw it into the sea ... ?

(b) Can we extrapolate from there that had she thrown it back at him, she would be Mekudeshes?

(c) What is the Beraisa coming to tell us? What might we otherwise have thought?

(a) What does the Beraisa say in the case of a woman ...
  1. ... who instructed the man who offered her Kidushin money, to hand it to her or his father?
  2. ... who added 'al-M'nas she'Yekablum Li'?
(b) Why does the Tana need to mention both *her* father and *his* father.
What is the Chidush of ...
  1. ... her father?
  2. ... his father?
(c) Another Beraisa makes the same distinction between 'T'neim' and ' ... al M'nas' but to a third person.
Why does the Tana need to repeat the Chidush both by 'Aba and Avicha' and by 'P'loni'? Let him cite only the case of ...
  1. ... 'Aba and Avicha'?
  2. ... 'P'loni'?
(a) If the woman responds with instructions to place the Manah of Kidushin on a rock she is not Mekudeshes, says the Tana in a Beraisa.
Why is she nevertheless Mekudeshes if the rock belongs to her?

(b) Rav Bibi asks a She'eilah on this which remains unanswered.
Which She'eilah?

(c) If she responds with instructions to give the loaf of Kidushin to a dog, she is not Mekudeshes.
In which case will she nevertheless be Mekudeshes?

(d) Rav Mari asks what the Din will be if a dog is chasing her, and she asks him to throw the loaf to the dog to save her. This She'eilah too, remains unanswered.
Seeing as she definitely benefits from what he did, why might she nevertheless not be Mekudeshes?

(a) Why is she definitely not Mekudeshes if she tell him to give the loaf of bread to a poor man?

(b) Will it make any difference if the poor man is generally supported by her?

Answers to questions

Next daf


For further information on
subscriptions, archives and sponsorships,
contact Kollel Iyun Hadaf,