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Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Kidushin 7

KIDUSHIN 7-10 - Dedicated by an admirer of the work of the Dafyomi Advancement Forum, l'Iluy Nishmas Mrs. Gisela (Golda bas Reb Chaim Yitzchak Ozer) Turkel, A"H.


(a) What is basis of the Halachah that if ...
  1. ... a woman says to a man 'Ten Manah li'P'loni ve'Akadesh Ani Lecha', she is Mekudeshes (even though she did not receive anything).
  2. ... a man says to a woman Heilech Manah, ve'Hiskadshi li'P'loni', she is Mekudeshes (even though the Mekadesh has not given anything away)?
  3. ... a woman says to a man 'Ten Manah li'P'loni va'Akadesh Ani Lo', she is Mekudeshes (even though neither did she receive anything, nor he receive)?
(b) In the second of the three above-mentioned cases, how is it possible for Reuven to betroth a woman on behalf of Shimon, with his own money?
(a) Rava asked whether, if the woman gives the man a Manah and says to him 'Heylech Manah va'Akadesh Ani Lecha', the Kidushin will be effective.
How did the man respond?

(b) What did Mar Zutra quoting Rav Papa, say about this?

(c) What objection do we raise on this ruling?

(d) As a matter of fact, we misunderstood Rav Papa, who was not referring to Kinyan 'Agav' at all.
What then, *was* he referring to? On what grounds would she be betrothed?

(a) Rava, who taught us earlier by Kidushin 'mi'Din Areiv and mi'Din Eved Cana'ani, adds 've'Chein le'Inyan Mamona'.
How will this apply to ...
  1. ... Din Areiv?
  2. ... Din Eved Cana'ani?
  3. ... Din Sh'neihem?
(b) Had Rava made his statement by ...
  1. ... Kidushin, why would we not have applied it to Mamona?
  2. ... Mamona, why would we not have applied it to Kidushin?
(c) What principle do we have with regard to the desire of a woman getting married?
(a) What distinction does Rava draw between 'Hiskadshi Li le'Chetzyi' and 'Chetzyech Mekudeshes Li'?

(b) Based on the words "Ki Yikach *Ish* *'Ishah*", what did Abaye ask Rava?

(c) Rava replied that one cannot compare the two cases.
Why not? How did Abaye misunderstand Rava?

(d) What did the man therefore mean when he said 'Hiskadshi Li le'Chetzyi'?

(a) What happens if someone declares the leg of a Kasher animal Hekdesh?

(b) In which case will even those who argue here, concede that the Kedushah will spread?

(c) Why do we not apply the same S'vara in the case of 'Chetzyech Mekudeshes Li'? Why does the Kidushin not automatically spread to the entire woman, rendering her Mekudeshes?

(a) We compare Kidushin to the case cited by Rebbi Yochanan, of the partner who declared his half of the animal Hekdesh.
What does Rebbi Yochanan say happens to the animal, should he ...
  1. ... not buy the second half from his partner?
  2. ... buy his partner out and declare the second half of the animal Hekdesh?
(b) What happens if he then declares another animal a Temurah on this one?

(c) Is the Temurah brought on the Mizbe'ach?

(a) We learn three things from Rebbi Yochanan's previous statement. We learn that ...
  1. ... 'Ba'alei Chayim Nidachin'.
    What do others say?
  2. ... 'Dichuy me'Ikara Havi Dichuy'.
    What do others say?
(b) How would Rebbi Yochanan's ruling differ according to them for either of the two reasons?

(c) What is Rebbi Yochanan third Chidush?

Answers to questions



(a) Rava asked whether a woman will be betrothed if the man said 'Chetzyech ... be'Chatzi P'rutah, ve'Chetzyechbe'Chatzi P'rutah'.
What are the two sides to the She'eilah? Why might she ...
  1. ... not be betrothed?
  2. ... nevertheless be betrothed?
(b) What She'eilah does Rava then ask, based on the assumption that, in the previous She'eilah, he was counting the half-P'rutos (and she is betrothed)?

(c) Assuming that whatever he says on the same day is considered counting, what She'eilah does he ask next? Why might the Kidushin be effective even though he specifically asks for the second P'rutah to take effect the next day?

(d) What is Rava's last She'eilah in this set, which he remains with 'Teiku'? What radical change does he now make from his previous stance?

(a) In a second set of She'eilos, Rava asks 'Sh'tei Benosayich li'Sh'nei Banai Mahu?' Who gave the father the authority to marry off his two sons?

(b) What are the two sides of Rava's She'eilah? Why might the two sisters ...

  1. ... not be betrothed?
  2. ... nevertheless be betrothed?
(a) Rav Papa asked what the Din will be in the case 'Bitcha u'Parascha bi'P'rutah'. If the man meant to acquire the woman with one half of the P'rutah and to pay for the cow with the other half (see Tosfos DH 'Bitcha'), it is obvious that the woman would not be betrothed.
What is the other side of the She'eilah?

(b) What similar She'eilah does Rav Ashi ask regarding a woman and a piece of land?

(c) What is the outcome of both She'eilos?

(a) In a case where a man betrothed a woman with silks, Rabah did not require their assessment prior to the Kidushin.
What did Rav Yosef say?

(b) What would they both hold if the man had specifically stipulated that he is betrothing her with them ...

  1. ... irrespective of their value?
  2. ... provided they were worth fifty Zuz, and they were found to be worth less?
(c) Then in which case will we establish Rabah and Rav Yosef's dispute?

(d) What is Rav Yosef's reasoning? Seeing as the silks were worth fifty, why should the Kidushin not be valid?

12) In the second Lashon, they even argue over a case where he stipulated that he was betrothing her irrespective of how much they were worth.
Why would Rav Yosef invalidate the Kidushin in such a case?

Answers to questions

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