ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Kidushin 81
KIDUSHIN 81 (7 Av) - has been dedicated to the memory of Dr. Simcha
Bekelnitzky (Simcha Gedalya ben Shraga Feibush) of Queens N.Y., by his wife
and daughters. G-dfearing and knowledgeable, Simcha was well known in the
community for his Chesed and Tzedakah. He will long be remembered.
(a) Rav Yehudah Amar Rav confine the Din in our Mishnah (permiting a woman
to seclude herself with two men) to when they are in town - on a journey, it
will be permitted only when there are three, in case one of them needs to
relieve himself (which might entail walking a considerable distance, until
he is out of sight), in which case, the remaining man and the woman will be
alone for a relatively long period of time.
(b) There is no proof for Rav Yehudah Amar Rav from the Mishnah in Sotah,
which requires two Talmidei-Chachamim to accompany the Sotah and her husband
(totaling three) to Yerushalayim - because there, two witnesses are required
to testify (to disqualify her from drinking the water), should they be
(c) When Rav suggested - that they hurry to overtake the woman who was
walking in front of them on the way, Rav Yehudah responded - that Rav
himself had permitted two men and one woman by Kesherim (into which category
Rav and himself presumably, fitted, and which presumably extended to cover
the current circumstances).
(d) To which Rav replied - that he was not talking about people like
themselves, but of the caliber of Rebbi Chanina bar Papi and his colleagues
(Rebbi Tzadok and Rav Kahana) cited in the first Perek (see Tosfos Rid).
(a) When Rav says ...
1. ... Malkin al ha'Yichud, he means - that Beis-Din would administer Makas
Mardus to people who contravened the Isur or Yichud.
(b) And when Rav Ashi restricts this to the Yichud of a Penuyah, but not to
that of a married woman, he means - that they did not give Malkos to a
married woman, so as not brand her children as Mamzeirim.
2. ... ve'Ein Osrin al ha'Yichud - that they would not however, forbid a
woman on her husband on account of it.
(c) We are worried that people will think that Beis-Din are giving her
Malkos, because they discovered that she was guilty of adultery. The reason
that they did not sentence her to death is - because in the days of the
Amora'im, the death-penalty was no longer carried out.
(a) Rav Nachman from Farhatya asked Rav Ashi why he did not do like Mar
Zutra, who used to administer Malkos even to married women, only he would
first announce that the Malkos was for the Yichud, and not for having
committed adultery, to which Rav Ashi replied - that he was afraid that some
people may hear about the Malkos but not about the announcement.
(b) Rav extrapolates from the Pasuk "Al Banai Ki Lo Tovah ha'Shemu'ah" -
that someone who behaves in such a way that causes bad rumors to spread
about him, has transgressed a La'av (justifying the Chachamim's instituting
Makas Mardus for someone ho did so).
1. Rabah - declared that Yichud with a married woman if her husband is in
town is permitted.
(d) Nevertheless, after they had eaten, when his hosts, Rav Yosef and his
wife descended from the attic, Rav Bibi instructed them to remove the ladder
leading from the attic to the house - because he was on particularly
friendly terms with Rav Yosef's family, removing the element of fear that
normally deters the woman from committing adultery is such a case.
2. Rav Yosef - too, declared that if the front door of the house is left
open to the main street, Yichud is permitted.
(a) Rav Kahana rules that if there are men in the outer room and women in
the inner room, there is no Isur Yichud - because on the one hand, the women
have to pass through the outer room in order to leave the house (which
presents no problem, because a woman is permitted to be secluded with more
than one man); and on the other hand, the men have no reason to go to the
inner room, which would have created a problem.
(b) There is however, an Isur Yichud in the reverse case - because whenever
a man would pass through the outer room, he would transgress.
(c)The Beraisa says precisely the opposite. The Tana ...
1. ... is concerned about Yichud when the men are in the outer room and the
women, in the inner room - in case one of the men enters the inner room on
his own, without his friends being aware of his departure.
(d) So Abaye ruled le'Chumra in both cases.
2. ... not concerned in the reverse case - because in the event that one of
the women enters the inner room, there is no Isur Yichud between a woman and
a number of men, and if one of the men goes into the outer room, it is not
considered Yichud either, because he will be afraid to commit adultery in
case one of the other men (who have to pass through the outer room to leave
the house), sees him.
(a) Abaye used to place numerous jars of wine between the men and women,
whenever there was a large gathering of people - to prevent the men from
crossing over to the other side and transgressing the Isur of Yichud
(because the jars would inevitably rattle if someone did attempt to cross).
(b) Instead of jars of wine - Rava used to place canes.
(c) Abaye considered the Shabbos during Yom-Tov the worst time of year - as
regards the Isur of Yichud and sins that are associated with it, because
crowds of men and women used to gather to hear the D'rashah, and inevitably,
there would be a lot of interaction between them.
(a) When they brought a group of female captives to Neherda'a and placed
them in the care of Rav Amram, who undertook to see that they were
redeemed - one of the captives passed by the skylight and the whole house
lit up with her radiance, with the result that Rav Amram was aroused.
(b) He called out 'Fire! Fire!', when after transporting the heavy ladder
leading up to the attic which normally required ten people to carry, he
began to ascend it in order to reach the woman. When he reached half-way
however he took hold of himself, and, in reference to the Yeitzer ha'Ra that
was raging inside him like a fire, he cried out that there was a fire in Rav
(c) When the Rabbanan accused him of embarrassing them, he replied - that it
was better that they are embarrassed from his behavior in this world, than
in the World to Come.
(d) When he said 'See, you are fire and I am flesh; yet I am stronger than
you' - he was speaking to the Yeitzer ha'Ra, who, following an oath that he
took, left him in the form of a tongue of flame.
(a) The Satan disguised himself as a woman passing by on the other side of
the River for Rebbi Meir and on top of a date-palm for Rebbi Meir - because
they made fun of the sinners, maintaining that, if they only wanted to, they
could easily overcome the Yeitzer ha'Ra (So the Satan set out to prove that
it wasn't so easy after all.
(b) Both of them went to great lengths to reach the respective women. Rebbi
Meir began crossing via a narrow plank holding on to a rope above; whereas
Rebbi Akiva began climbing the tree.
(c) The Satan stop short of making them sin - due to strict instructions
from above to respect their Torah (because the Torah that a person learns
shields over a person, and guards him against sinning ' Agados Maharsha).
1. P'limu caused the Satan to teach him a lesson - by saying 'Arrows in the
eyes of the Satan' (meaning that he could beat him, hands down).
(b) When P'limu ...
2. The Satan came to him on Erev Yom Kipur - disguised as a poor man begging
1. ... brought him bread to the door, he complained - that everyone else was
inside, whilst he alone remained outside.
(c) P'limu needed ...
2. ... took him inside and gave him a place to eat - he complained that
everyone else sat together at the family table, whilst he sat on his own.
1. ... to tell him to sit nicely - when he began tending to his boils and
ulcers (with which he was covered) at table.
(d) After the Satan ...
2. ... to scold him - when he deliberately coughed up phlegm and spat it
into his cup of wine.
1. ... pretended to drop dead - rumors began to circulate that P'limu had
killed someone, and, afraid that the King's officers were coming to take him
away, he fled and went into hiding in a bathroom (out in the fields, away
from the city).
2. ... went to see P'limu in the bathroom, he divulged who he was - and told
him to discontinue his practice of saying 'Arrows in the eyes of the Satan'.
When P'limu then asked him what he should say, he replied that he should
pray to Hashem for Divine assistance in overcoming him ('Rachmana, Nig'ar
(a) Whenever he fell on his face to say Tachanun, Rebbi Chiya bar Ashi used
to say - 'May Hashem save me from the Yeitzer ha'Ra'.
(b) His wife objected on the grounds that - for some years, he had not had
relations with her, in which case, she considered such a prayer unwarranted.
(c) Subsequently ...
1. ... making herself up like a prostitute, she attracted her husband's
attention by walking past him a few times. Then, telling him that her name
was Charusa (a well-known prostitute), she requested that he pick her a
pomegranate from a nearby tree, in exchange for her services.
(d) His wife only managed to convince him that, even though he meant to sin,
he had not in fact, done so - when she showed him the pomegranate he had
2. ... he went home and, realizing what he had done, he was so distraught,
that when he found his wife (who had meanwhile changed back to her real
self) heating the oven, he jumped inside.
(a) Despite the fact that Rebbi Chiya bar Ashi had not sinned, he
nevertheless proceeded to fast until his death - because someone who
performs an act that he deems to be sinful requires an atonement, even
though it transpires that he did not in fact, sin.
(b) The source for this is the Pasuk "Iyshah Haferam, va'Hashem Yislach
Lah". The Pasuk is referring to - a woman who contravened her Neder without
knowing that her husband had annulled it.
(c) Rebbi Akiva wept whenever he arrived at ...
1. ... this Pasuk - because, he said, if someone who thought he was eating
Chazir requires an atonement when all he really ate was Kasher meat, imagine
how much of an atonement someone needs if he really did eat Chazir!
(d) Isi ben Yehudah commented on this Pasuk - that this is really something
to be sad about (see Agados Maharsha).
2. ... the Pasuk "ve'Lo Yada ve'Asheim, ve'Nasa Avono" - because if someone
who intended to eat Shuman (Kasher fat) and inadvertently picked up Cheilev,
must bear his sin, then imagine what happens to someone who actually
*intended* to eat Cheilev!
(a) Rav Yehudah Amar Rav said 'Misyached Adam im Achoso, ve'Dor Im Imo ve'Im
Bito', changing the Lashon from the Reisha to the Seifa - because whereas
Yichud with a mother and a daughter is even permitted on a permanent basis,
it is only permitted casually with a sister.
(b) We reconcile Shmuel, who forbids Yichud with all Arayos, with our
Mishnah, which explicitly permits Yichud with a daughter and a mother - by
establishing him like a Beraisa which forbids it.
(c) The Beraisa permits Yichud with Arayos only when there are witnesses.
That is what Rebbi Meir meant when he instructed his family to ensure that
he was not Misyached with his daughter. Rebbi Tarfon instructed his family
to ensure that he was not Misyached - with his daughter-in- law.
(d) That Talmid who laughed at Rebbi Tarfon, says Rebbi Avahu Amar Rebbi
Chanina ben Gamliel - ultimately committed adultery with his mother-in-law.
(a) Based on Shmuel, who forbids Yichud even with animals, Abaye ...
1. ... when he used to walk in the fields to review his learning
undisturbed - would clear the field of animals (according to one
(b) Rav Sheishes - used to move them to the other side of the fence (or the
2. ... would forbid the shepherds to remain in the same field as the sheep
(according to the other one). See Tosfos.
(c) When Rav Chanan from Neherda'a asked Rav Kahana why he permitted an
animal to remain in the room whilst he learned - he replied that he had not
been aware that it was there.
(d) Rava permits Yichud with ...
1. ... two Yevamos, two Tzaros, a woman and her mother-in-law, a woman and
mother-in-law's daughter and a woman and her husband's daughter - because
they all hate each other. Consequently, each one will be afraid to
misbehave, in case the other one shares the information with others.
2. ... a woman and a little girl - who is old enough to know what Bi'ah is
(and who will consequently tell others, if she sees it performed), but not
old enough to have developed a Yetzer ha'Ra for it (in which case she will
not be easily tempted to participate).
(a) According to Rav Acha bar Rav Aza Amar Rav Asi, the age of 'Higdilu' in
our Mishnah (where a daughter sleeping with her father and a son with his
mother, must be covered, is nine (some say three) and twelve respectively.
The second Lashon - gives their respective ages as twelve and thirteen.
(b) According to both opinions, we qualify the ages of a girl le'Kula - by
restricting the Chumra to where her breasts have developed and she has grown
pubic hair (because that is when a man will become aroused by her closeness
if she is not covered).
(c) The basis of the Machlokes with regard to hair is - whether hair that
grows between the ages of nine and twelve is a Si'man Gadlus, or merely a
(d) Rafram bar Papa Amar Rav Chisda qualifies Rav Asi's statement
le'Chumra - by restricting it to a girl who is not embarrassed to stand in
front of her father uncovered. If she is, then we know that she knows the
meaning of Bi'ah.
(a) When Rav Chisda told Rav Acha bar Aba, who had taken his little daughter
into bed with him, that she was betrothed, the latter accused him of having
contravened the ruling of Rav Yehudah Amar Rav (or Rebbi Elazar), who
forbade a man to betroth his daughter as long as she is a Ketanah, but
should wait until she is old enough to say 'That's the man I want to marry!'
(b) Rav Chisda retorted with a counter accusation based on a ruling of
Shmuel - that it is forbidden to be served by a woman at all (and certainly
what Rav Acha had done was no better).
(c) Rav Acha bar Aba retorted that he held like another ruling of Shmuel -
'ha'Kol le'Shem Shamayim' (meaning that as long as one's motives are pure,
being served by a woman is permitted.