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Kidushin 71

KIDUSHIN 71 - Sponsored by Rabbi Dr. Eli Turkel and his wife, Jeri Turkel. May Hashem bless them with many years of Simcha, health and fulfillment, and may they see all of their children and grandchildren follow them in the ways of Torah and Yir'as Shamayim!



(a) In Rebbi's time, they wanted to declare Bavel 'an Iysah' to Eretz Yisrael. Rebbi was unhappy about that - because he was a descendant of Hillel ha'Bavli (and such a statement would place his own family's Yichus in jeopardy)?

(b) Besides 'a dough' - Iysah might mean the sediment of grapes from which all the juice has been squeezed.

(c) The findings of Rebbi Chanina bar Chama, Rebbi's emissary (quoting Rebbi Yishmael b'Rebbi Yossi quoting his father) were - 'Kol Aratzos Iysah le'Eretz Yisrael, ve'Eretz Yisrael Iysah le'Bavel' (just as we learned in our Mishnah).

(a) The same happened in the days of Rebbi Pinchas. He decided to first teach them another Halachah before telling them 'Eretz Yisrael Iysah le'Bavel' - to keep their minds occupied, so that, when he taught them the second Halachah, they would still be busy with the first one, giving him a chance to run away (to prevent them from making any further enquiries).

(b) He specifically chose the Halachah of 'Ein Shechitah le'Of min ha'Torah' - because to them, it was a big Chidush, and was therefore bound to divert their attention from the second issue.

(c) We derive this from the Pasuk by Kisuy ha'Dam - "ve'Shafach es Damo" 'bi'Shefichah be'Alma'.

(d) He instructed his men, that the moment he finished speaking, they should pick up his stretcher and run. He himself was too old to run.

(a) The Talmidim chased after him but could not catch him. Clearly, they were eager to discover who the Pesulim were and wanted to sift them out. When we say that they made enquiries 'Ad she'Higi'u le'Sakanah', we mean - that they began inquiring into the families of the powerful elite, and to continue with their enquiries might have had dire consequences.

(b) When Rebbi Yochanan said ...

1. ... 'Heichla, be'Yadeinu Hu!", he meant - that he knew who the Pesulim were. 'Heichla' - is an expression of Shevu'ah ('I swear by the Heichal!').
2. ... 'Aval Mah E'eseh ... ' - that although he was able to sift them out, he preferred not to, because the leaders of the generation had also intermarried into those families.
(c) The Halachic basis for remaining silent was - Rebbi Yitzchak's Halachah (quoted earlier) 'she'Mishpachah she'Nitme'ah, Nitme'ah'.

(d) Abaye proves this from a Mishnah in Iduyos, which speaks about one family which ben Tzi'on rejected by force and another which he accepted by force. The Tana then adds - that it is cases such as these (where the P'sul is known) that Eliyahu will need to sort out, but with re. to unknown Pesulim, this will not be necessary, because of the principle 'Mishpachah she'Nitme'ah, Nitme'ah'.

(a) And the Tana of a Beraisa speaks of a family which the Chachamim knew to be Pasul, but which they did not want to publicise. So what they did instead - was to pass on its name to their children and their disciples.

(b) Some say that they would do this once every seven years. Others say - twice every seven years.

(c) Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak prefers the first version on the basis of a Tosefta in Nazir, which rules that if someone says 'Hareini Nazir Im Lo Agaleh Mishpachos' - Yih'yeh Nazir ve'Lo Yegaleh Mishpachos' (which proves that the less one publicizes the Pasul Mishpachos the better).

(d) We find the same two opinions - re. the teaching of Hashem's four-letter Name (and there too, Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak prefers the first version).

(a) Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak's basis for Darshening the correct way of pronouncing Hashem's four letter Name once every seven years (and not twice) is the Pasuk in Sh'mos "Zeh Sh'mi Le'olam" - from which we Darshen 'Zeh Sh'mi le'Olam' (This is My Name, to hide it).

(b) That old man found it necessary to quote this Pasuk to Rava - to prevent him from publicizing it during his Yom-Tov D'rashah.

(c) Rav Avina reconciles the double Lashon - by establishing "Zeh Sh'mi le'Olam" to refer to the Name of Hashem the way it is written, (Havayah) and "ve'Zeh Zichri le'Dor Dor" to the way it is pronounced (Adnus), the first to be hidden, the second, to be used.

(d) When people began abusing Hashem's twelve-letter Name - they took to teaching it exclusively to discreet Kohanim. The others would Duchen using the four-letter Name of Hashem, and those Kohanim who knew the longer Name would say it fast so as to finish together with the others, and to prevent the people from picking up the twelve-letter Name.

(a) Once, when Rebbi Tarfon, as a youngster, followed his maternal aunt up to Duchen - he tried to listen to the Kohen Gadol pronouncing the twelve-letter Name of Hashem, but did not succeed, for reasons that we just explained.

(b) He went up to Duchen because he was a Kohen.

(c) Rav Yehudah Amar Rav discusses Hashem's forty-two letter Name. It is only taught to people who are discreet and humble and who have reached the age of thirty-five. The ...

1. ... other three requirements that are needed for a person to be eligible are - that he never gets angry, never gets drunk and forgoes the harm that others do him.
2. ... two requirements that are needed in order to be beloved above and well-liked below are - that one knows the Name and that one is careful in its use.
(d) The other advantages that one gains from this knowledge, besides the fact that people stand in awe of him are - that one inherits both this world and the next.
(a) Shmuel quoting his grandfather, declares that all families in Bavel are presumed Kasher until proven Pasul. He say that the families ...
1. ... of other lands - are presumed Pasul until proven Kasher.
2. ... of Eretz Yisrael - are divided into two groups; those that have a Chezkas P'sul are Pasul, and those that have a Chezkas Kashrus are Kasher (in fact, there is a third group, as we shall now see).
(b) The problem with this latter statement is - that we can infer from the Reisha that families which are a Safek are Kasher, whereas the same inference from the Seifa renders them Pasul.

(c) Rav Huna bar Tachlifa in the name of Rav resolves the discrepancy 'Ka'an Lehasi'o Ishah, Ka'an Lehotzi Ishah mi'Yado', by which he means - that a Safek is considered Kasher (and does not require examination) if he is already married; but should he come to marry initially, he is considered Pasul (and requires examination [which will be described later]).




(a) Rav Yosef determined that someone came from Bavel - if he spoke the local dialect of Aramaic.

(b) That method of determining become obsolete however - when tricksters who did not hail from Bavel began learning the dialect, in order to pass off as Bavli'im.

(c) Zeiri declined to marry Rebbi Yochanan's daughter - because he came from Bavel, against which Eretz Yisrael (Rebbi Yochanan's place of birth) was considered Iysah.

(d) As Zeiri was once carrying Rebbi Yochanan across the river - the latter asked him why it was that if his Torah was good enough, his daughter wasn't.

(a) The basis of Rebbi Yochanan's opinion (that the Yichus of Bavel was no better than that of Eretz Yisrael) - is that, just as some Kohanim, Levi'im and Yisre'elim remained behind in Bavel, so too, did some of the Pesulim.

(b) His mistake lay in that he had not heard the statement of his Talmid Rebbi Elazar - who stated that Ezra did not leave Bavel before he had made it like refined flour.

(c) Rav Yehudah attributed the fact that his son Rav Yitzchak was still single, despite the fact that he was of eligible age - to the fact that he did not know which families had remained pure (see Agados Maharsha).

(d) Ula's response to that was - that if that was the case, how would anybody ever know how Kasher his ancestors were, as will now be explained.

(a) We reject the suggestion that Ula was referring to the Pasuk "Nashim be'Tzi'on Inu" - because according to those who hold 'Eved ve'Akum ha'Ba Al bas Yisrael, ha'V'lad Kasher', there is nothing to worry about.

(b) So we establish his source as being the Pasuk "ha'Shochvim al Mitos Shein, u'Seruchim al Arsosam". Rebbi Avahu rejects Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Chanina's explanation that this refers to the people who used to urinate in front of their beds naked - because such a relatively minor sin would not justify the harsh punishment that follows: ''Therefore they will go at the head of the exiles".

(c) So Rebbi Avahu (and Ula) establishes the Pasuk - by people who after eating and drinking together, join their beds, swap wives and soil their beds with semen that is not their own. Their children of course, are Mamzeirim.

(a) Ula finally advised Rav Yehudah - to judge the pure Yichus of a family by the extent of their ability to remain silent (to avoid entering into arguments).

(b) They would test for Yichus in Eretz Yisrael - by seeing which party would hold its tongue first.

(c) When we say 'Rav Ikla le'Bei bar Shefi (or 'le'Bei Shichla) u'Badak B'hu', we mean - that Rav would examine them according to their ability to remain silent. He said 'Examine them by seeing whether they remain silent or not'.

(d) Both Rav Yehudah Amar Rav and Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi explain two feuding families that just cannot make peace with each other - as being Divinely inspired, to prevent them from intermarrying, because one of them is Pasul.

(a) When Rav Papa says ...
1. ... 'Bavel B'riah' he means - that the whole of Bavel is Meyuchas.
2. ... 'Meishan Miysah' - that the whole of Meishan was Pasul.
3. ... 'Madai Choleh' - that most of Madai was Kasher (just like most sick people recover).
4. ... 'Eilam Goseses' - that most of Eilam was Pasul (just like the majority of Gosesim die).
(b) Bavel basically lay between two rivers; the Diglas (alias the Chidekel) to the east and the P'ras (the Euphrates) to the west. Eretz Yisrael was south (south-west) of Bavel. The P'ras flowed northwards from Eretz Yisrael into the Chidekel in the north-east (see Tosfos DH 'Ad Heichan').

(c) According to Rav, Bavel extended in the north, to the east of the River Diglas, as far as the River Azak and to the south (of the River) until Baghdad and Avna; whereas according to Shmuel it extended further eastwards (in the north) to the River Yuni and further south to as far as Mushchani. The ramifications of their Machlokes is - whether those who lived in between were considered Kasher (regarding Yuchsin) or not.

(d) We amend the statement 've'Lo Mushchani bi'Ch'lal' to 'u'Mushchani bi'Ch'lal', because of a statement of Rebbi Chiya bar Aba Amar Shmuel - who said that Mushchani was like Bavel re. Yuchsin.

(a) Bavel in the north stretched as far as the lower Apamya. Knowing that there were two Apamyas, the lower Apamya was outside the border, and the upper Apamya within.

(b) Despite the fact that the two Apamyas were no more than one Parsah apart, they would they not even borrow a light from one another - this was at the initiation of the upper Apamya, to ensure that they did not mix with the families of the lower Apamya.

(c) The sign to remember which Apamya is Pasul is - by bearing in mind that they spoke the Meishan language there, because it was close to Meishan, whose families, we learned above, were Pasul, too.

(a) The Western border is the River P'ras, and here too, Rav and Shmuel argue over the southern extremity; Rav says 'until Akra de'Tulbanki' 'ad Gishra de'Bei P'ras. We currently believe that Gishra di'P'ras - was further south?

(b) Rav Yosef cursed the opinion of Rav - which was too lenient (because, according to our current understanding, he sided with Rebbi Yochanan, whose opinion we shall cite shortly). In that case, he would certainly have meant to incorporate Shmuel's opinion, because he is even more lenient than Rav (and it is as if he had said Rav and 'Kal va'Chomer' Shmuel).

(c) Alternatively, we explain, the position of the bridge was changed - because in fact, on this particular border, Shmuel is more stringent than Rav (and his location is further north than that of Rav). Only whereas our Kashya assumes that the bridge was to the south of Rav's location (as it was at the time of the late Amora'im, in the time of Shmuel it was further north, and it was the Persians who later moved it southwards.

(d) A third opinion is that of Rebbi Yochanan, who places the south-western extremity as the crossing of Gizma, which is further north than the opinions of Rav and Shmuel, explaining why Rav Yosef cursed the opinion of Rav, but not Rebbi Yochanan's.

(a) The elite of Pumbedisa used to marry into families from Biyram - which was west of the River P'ras.

(b) Rav Yosef prove to Abaye from there - that although the River P'ras was generally the western border of Bavel, the border did extend slightly westwards.

(c) We do not query the status of people who lived 'below' (north of) the River P'ras - because the P'ras ran into the Chidekel in the north and we have already dealt with that northern area when we discussed the lower Apamya and the and the upper Apamya.

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