ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Kidushin 54
KIDUSHIN 51-55 - Ari Kornfeld has generously sponsored the Dafyomi
publications for these Dafim for the benefit of Klal Yisrael.
(a) When Rav states that he did not find anywhere that according to Rebbi
Meir 'Hekdesh be'Shogeg Ein Mischalel, be'Meizid Mis'chalel' - he means to
argue with Rebbi Yochanan (and Rav Chisda), who said this on the previous
(b) According to Rav, Rebbi Meir in our Mishnah, who says 'be'Shogeg, Lo
Kidesh', is referring to - the shirts of the Kohanim that are still
(c) The reason that shirts that are wearable are different than their
counterparts that have worn out in this regard is - because otherewise, how
could the Kohanim (with all their Z'riysus), avoid being Mo'el between the
time they conclude the Avodah until they change into their private clothes?
(a) The Tana Kama in the Beraisa holds 'Mo'alin be'Chadtin, ve'Ein Mo'alin
1. 'Chadtin' - is the box (marked 'Tiklin Chadtin') into which anyone who
brought his half-Shekel after Rosh Chodesh Nisan would place it.
(b) The money was used for the upkeep of Yerushalayim, its walls and many
2. 'Atikin' is - the box (marked 'Tiklin Atikin') into which anyone who had
not brought his half-Shekel until the following year would place it. The
money was also known as 'Terumas ha'Lishkah'.
(a) We amend the Beraisa, where Rebbi Meir says 'Mo'alin ba'Atikin ... ', in
spite of the S'vara 'Lo Nitnah Torah le'Mal'achei ha'Sha'res' - to read
Rebbi Yehudah, instead of Rebbi Meir.
(b) Rebbi Yehudah concedes - that due the S'vara 'Lo Nitnah Torah
le'Mal'achei ha'Sha'res', the Kohanim are not Mo'el on the Bigdei Kehunah,
nor is someone who sits in the shade of the walls of Yerushalayim Mo'el
(presumably because of 'T'nai Beis-Din'). It is with re. to using them in
ways that *are* avoidable that he argues with Rebbi Meir, and holds that
there is Me'ilah.
(c) And we amend the Beraisa where Rebbi Meir includes stones that fell from
the walls of Yerushalayim in the Dinim of Me'ilah - by changing it too, to
Rebbi Yehudah, instead of Rebbi Meir.
(d) The problem with establishing these Beraisos like Rebbi Yehudah,
considering that the Sheyarei ha'Lishkah was used for the walls of
Yerushalayim is - that in a Mishnah in Nedarim, Rebbi Yehudah does not
consider the walls of Yerushalayim to be intrinsically Holy.
(a) According to the Tana Kama in the Mishnah in Nedarim - if someone
declares something Asur 'ke'Imra, ke'Dirim, ke'Eitzim, ke'Ishim, ke'Heichal,
ke'Mizbe'ach or ki'Yerushalayim', the Neder takes effect.
1. 'ke'Imra' is - like a lamb of Hekdesh.
(c) We cannot ascribe Rebbi Yehudah's statement there 'Yerushalayim, Lo Amar
K'lum' to the fact that he did not say 'ki'Yerushalayim' (and not because
Yerushalayim is not Kadosh) - because elsewhere he specifically says - 'Kol
ha'Omer ki'Yerushalayim, Lo Amar K'kum'.
2. 'ke'Dirim' - like pens of Hekdesh animals or store-rooms of Hekdesh wood.
(d) We reconcile Rebbi Yehudah who, on the one hand, includes the walls of
Yerushalayim among those things that are subject to Me'ilah and on the
other, does not consider Yerushalayim to be a Davar ha'Nadur (because it is
not Kadosh) - by making this a Machlokes Tana'im in Rebbi Yehudah.
(a) We refute Ula Amar bar Pada initial contention that when Rebbi Meir says
'Hekdesh be'Shogeg Mis'chalel', he is referring exclusively to the
obligation to bring a Korban, but the money remains Hekdesh - on the grounds
that if the money remains Hekdesh, what is the Korban for?
(b) Ravin citing Rebbi Meir - restricts 'Shogeg Mis'chalel' to eating (like
(c) This does not mean that Me'ilah is confined to the realm of food -
because it extends to anything that one consumes or uses up, such as oil of
(a) Rav Nachman Amar Rav Ada bar Ahavah rules with re. to ...
1. ... Ma'aser Sheini - like Rebbi Meir, who says 'Bein be'Shogeg, Bein
be'Meizid, Lo Kidesh'.
(b) His initial reason for both of these rulings is - because each of them
appears in a S'tam Mishnah.
2. ... Hekdesh - like Rebbi Yehudah, who says 'be'Shogeg Kidesh, be'Meizid
(c) He rules like Rebbi Meir, because of the S'tam Mishnah in Ma'aser
Sheini. Beis Shamai rule there 'Kerem Revai Ein Lo Chomesh, ve'Ein Lo
Biy'ur; Beis Hillel rule, 'Yesh Lo'. The basis of their Machlokes is -
whether we learn a 'Gezeirah-Shavah' "Kodesh" "Kodesh" from Ma'aser (Beis
Hillel) or not (Beis Shamai).
(d) With re. to the Peret and Olelos of a Kerem Revai - Beis Shamai hold
'Yesh Lo' (because it falls under the category of "Karmecha"; According to
Beis Hillel, it all goes to the wine-press (because it is Hekdesh, like
Rebbi Meir), as we just learned from the 'Gezeirah-Shavah').
(a) In the case where a treasurer of Hekdesh sent Hekdesh money with a
Pike'ach to buy something, and he remembered that it was Hekdesh before the
Sheli'ach reached the store-keeper - it is the store-keeper who will be
Chayav Me'ilah when he spends the money.
(b) We prove from here - that a S'tam Mishnah holds like Rebbi Yehudah (that
there is Me'ilah by Hekdesh be'Shogeg).
(a) The author of the S'tam Mishnah 'ha'Podeh Ma'aser Sheini she'Lo, Mosif
Alav Chamishiso Bein mi'Shelo, Bein she'Nitan Lo be'Matanah' would appear to
be Rebbi Yehudah (who holds 'Ma'aser Mamon Hedyot') - because, according to
Rebbi Meir, one cannot give Ma'aser Sheini as a gift.
(b) Establishing the Mishnah when the owner gave the Ma'aser when it was
still together with the Tevel helps establish it even like Rebbi Meir -
because this Tana holds 'Matanos she'Lo Hurmu ke'Mi she'Lo Hurmu Damyan'
('Before the Matanos have been separated, they are not considered Matanos'),
in which case one would be permitted to give them as a gift.
(c) We ask a similar Kashya from the S'tam Mishnah in Ma'aser Sheini
'ha'Podeh Neta Revai she'Lo Mosif Alav Chamishiso, Bein mi'Shelo, Bein
she'Nitan Lo be'Matanah' (which appears to go like Rebbi Yehudah).
Establishing the Mishnah when the owner gave the Ma'aser when it was still
S'mader (in the first stages of fruit) helps establish it even like Rebbi
Meir - since it is not yet considered a fruit, and is therefore not subject
to the Dinim of Ma'aser.
(d) This does not go like Rebbi Yossi - who holds that S'mader Orlah is Asur
because it is considered a fruit.
(a) The S'tam Mishnah in Ma'aser Sheini says that, in a case where someone
purchased Ma'aser to the value of a Sela, but before he managed to pay for
it, the price rose to two - the purchaser is obligated to pay one Sela (and
gains the second one).
(b) The author of this Mishnah must be Rebbi Yehudah - because according to
Rebbi Meir, who considers Ma'aser Sheini Hekdesh, he would only acquire the
Ma'aser after having paid for it. Consequently, it would Hekdesh's property
that went up in price, and he would have to pay two Sela'im.
(c) We try and reconcile the fact that we now have a S'tam Mishnah regarding
Ma'aser like Rebbi Yehudah, with Rav Nachman (who rules like Rebbi Meir by
Ma'aser only because his opinion is backed by a S'tam Mishnah) - by pointing
out that there are two S'tam Mishnayos like Rebbi Meir, and only one, like
(d) In spite of the S'vara 'Mah Li Chad S'tama, Mah Li T'rei S'tama', Rav
Nachman bar Yitzchak substantiates Rav Nachman's ruling - because a S'tam
Mishnah in the Bechirta (Iduyos - which is entirely le'Halachah) supports