ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Kidushin 47
KIDUSHIN 46-47 - Ari Kornfeld has generously sponsored the Dafyomi
publications for these Dafim for the benefit of Klal Yisrael.
(a) We learned in our Mishnah that, if the woman ate the dates as she
received them, they do not combine to make up a Perutah. Rava qualifies
this, by differentiating between 'be'Zu, be'Zu, be'Zu' and 'be'Eilu' - which
is different because then all the dates are hers immediately and she is
simply eating what belongs to her.
(b) The Tana of the Beraisa rules in a case where a man said 'Hiskadshi Li
ba'Alon, be'Rimon u've'Egoz' or 'Hiskadshi be'Eilu - Im Yesh be'Chulan
Shaveh Perutah, Mekudeshes, ve'Im La'av Einah Mekudeshes.
(c) An 'Alon' - is an acorn, which some people would roast like chestnuts
(a) The difference between the Reisha of the Beraisa, where the man said
'ba'Alon, be'Rimon *u've'Egoz'* (rather than 'O be'Egoz') and the Seifa
'be'Zu, be'Zu, be'Zu' is - that the former speaks when he specifically said
(b) We establish the Reisha when he said 'be'Eilu', in spite of the fact
that the Tana continues with the case of 'Hiskadshi Li be'Eilu' - because
the latter case is not an independent case at all, but comes to qualify the
(c) The Tana adds in the Seifa the case of - 'be'Zu, Natlaso ve'Ochlaso ...
', which he did not include in the Reisha.
(d) This proves - Rava's distinction between 'be'Zu, be'Zu, be'Zu' and
(a) The problem from the previous Beraisa on Rav and Shmuel, who established
the case in our Mishnah 'Haysah Ocheles Rishonah Rishonah' on the Reisha
('Hiskadshi Li bi'Temarah Zu, Hiskadshi Li be'Zu') is - that the Tana of the
Beraisa does not include a case of P'rat like 'Hiskadshi Li ... ' in our
Mishnah. Consequently, we cannot establish the Beraisa in the same way as we
did the Mishnah (and we will have a proof for Rebbi Ami's interpretation of
(b) We answer by establishing the Tana of the Beraisa like Rebbi - who
considers 'k'Zayis u'k'Zayis' as much a P'rat as 'k'Zayis k'Zayis'.
(c) We are now referring to - the Seifa de'Seifa of the Beraisa 'be'Zu,
Notlaso ve'Ochlaso be'Zu Natlaso ve'Ochlaso, ve'Od be'Zu ve'Od be'Zu Einah
Mekudeshes ad she'Yehei ... ', the author of which is Rebbi.
(d) This explain the Beraisa according to Rav and Shmuel - who will now
learn the Beraisa in the same way as they learn the Mishnah (that in event,
since he used a Lashon of P'rat, she is only Mekudeshes if any one of the
dates is worth a Perutah), and our Tana presents the case of 'Achlaso' to
teach us that even though she benefited immediately, she is not betrothed as
long as the date that she ate was not worth a Perutah.
(a) Rav corroborates what we learned earlier 'ha'Mekadesh be'Milveh Einah
Mekudeshes'. The reason for this ruling is - because a loan is meant to
spend ('Milveh le'Hotza'ah Nitnah'), in which case, the money already
belongs to the woman, and the man is not giving her anything.
(b) We suggest that this is the Machlokes Tana'im in the Beraisa
'ha'Mekadesh be'Milveh Mekudeshes; ve'Yesh Omrim Einah Mekudeshes'. The Tana
Kama's reason is - because a loan is not for spending (unless one receives
express permission to do so) but to invest (in a way that it remains
available to the owner should he want it).
(c) We refute this suggestion however, on the basis of the Seifa - which
validates a sale under the same circumstances, even according to the Tana
(d) Because if a loan is to spend, then on what grounds would such a sale be
valid (seeing as the purchaser did not give the seller anything)?
(a) When Rav Nachman quoting Huna our Chaver establishes the Beraisa in a
different case - he means that the Beraisa speaks (not about money that the
man had previously lent the woman, or the seller, the purchaser, but) the
Dinar that is still outstanding, since the man paid the woman one Dinar
short of the Manah that he promised her.
(b) The basis of the Machlokes between the Tana Kama and Yesh Omrim is -
whether the woman is too embarrassed to claim the outstanding Dinar (the
Rabbanan), in which case the Kidushin is invalid, or not (Yesh Omrim).
(c) In a case where a man agrees to give a woman a Manah, but only hands her
a Dinar - Rebbi Elazar rules that the Kidushin is valid and that he remains
obligated to pay the difference.
(d) In fact, Rebbi Elazar can hold even like the Tana Kama - because the
reason that the woman is too embarrassed to claim the outstanding sum is due
to the relatively small sum involved; whereas here, where the bulk of the
amount still owing is substantial, he maintains, she will be only too ready
to claim her debt.
(a) The Tana Kama of the Beraisa rules in the case where a man betrothed a
woman with the Pikadon that she is safekeeping for him, and she then
discovered that it was either stolen or lost, that she is betrothed,
provided goods to the value of at least a Perutah remain. In the case of a
Milveh however - she will be betrothed even if nothing remains (with the
benefit that she derives from the fact that he is now foregoing his claim on
(b) Rebbi Shimon ben Elazar in the name of Rebbi Meir says - that Milveh is
no different than Pikadon in this regard.
(c) We can extrapolate from their words - that if the money of the loan is
still intact, one can betroth with a loan.
(d) This is a Kashya on Rav, who says that one cannot.
(a) We reject the suggestion that the Rabbanan and Rebbi Meir argue over
whether 'Milveh le'Hotza'ah Nitnah' or not, because that would leave us with
a problem with the Reisha ('Hiskadshi Li be'Pikadon') where the Tana
requires at least one Perutah to remain. The problem assuming that ...
1. ... the woman accepted liability - would be that in that case the Tana
would merely be duplicating the same case twice, since there would then be
no difference between this case and that of Milveh.
(b) So we first amend the Beraisa and then establish it in a different case
(as we did with the previous Beraisa). The case of ...
2. ... she did not - would be that in the Seifa, the Tana should simply
have switched from a a case where she did not accept respomsibility to one
where she did, but still by Pikadon?
1. ... Pikadon now speaks - when she did accept responsibility.
(c) Rabah learned the interpretation of the Machlokes Tana'im from the
Rabbanan in *Bei Rav* - which means simply the Beis-Hamedrash.
2. ... Milveh now reads - 'u've'Milveh Af-al-Pi she'Nishtayer Mimenu Shaveh
Perutah, Einah Mekudeshes' (because 'Milveh le'Hotza'ah Nitnah'.
(a) The Rabbanan de'Bei Rav established the Machlokes by whether 'Milveh
bi'Reshus Ba'alim le'Chazarah' - meaning that the owner has the right to
retract (and withdraw the loan), which explains why Rebbi Shimon ben Elazar
in the name of Rebbi Meir permits him to retract, or not (the Rabbanan).
(b) Both Tana'im agree - that 'Milveh le'Hotza'ah Nitnah', and that
consequently, once the borrower has spent any of the money (and perhaps
already from the time that he takes it with the intention of spending it),
all the money belongs to him, and the owner no longer has the right to
(c) When they said 've'Hu ha'Din le'Onsin, they meant - that the same
Machlokes will apply as to whether the borrower will be obligated to pay for
Onsin that occurred before he had used any of the borrowed money.
(d) Rabah disagrees with the latter statement. It is obvious to him that the
borrower is Chayav Onsin even before he has spent any of the money - 'Kal
va'Chomer' from a Sho'el who is liable to pay for Onsin immediately, even
though he is expected to return the article to the owner intact; in that
case, a borrower, who is permitted to spend the money, should certainly be
liable for Onsin.
(a) Rav Huna rules that if someone borrows an ax for ten days, he only
acquires it from the moment he chops with it - meaning that the owner is
entitled to retract until such time as he begins to use it.
(b) Even the Rabbanan (who hold that someone who borrows money acquires it
immediately) will concede this on the grounds - that borrowing an article
(which will be returned intact), is different that borrowing money (which,
due on the ruling 'Milveh le'Hotza'ah Nitnah', is not).
(a) 'ha'Omer le'Ishah Hiskadshi Li bi'Sh'tar Chov O she'Hayah Lo Milveh
be'Yad Acheirim ve'Hirshah Aleihem, Rebbi Meir Omer Mekudeshes'. The
Chachamim say - 'Einah Mekudeshes'.
(b) We initially reject the suggestion that Sh'tar Chov means Sh'tar Chov
da'Acheirim - because that would then be synonymous with the other case in
the Beraisa ('she'Hayah Lo Milveh be'Yad Acheirim ve'Hirshah Aleihem').
(c) In that case, it means - the Sh'tar Chov that he has on her (and which
he now returns to her as Kidushin). In that case, Rebbi Meir holds
'ha'Mekadesh be'Milveh Mekudeshes', and the Chachamim, 'Einah Mekudeshes'
(proving that Rav's opinion is based on a Machlokes Tana'im).
(d) We finally justify establishing the case of Sh'tar Chov by Sh'tar Chov
da'Acheirim - because what we in fact, have here is (not just one, but) two
Machlokes Tana'im, one by a Milveh bi'Sh'tar and one, by a Milveh she'be'Al
Peh (as we will now explain).
(a) We establish the Machlokes by Sh'tar Chov as being the same Machlokes as
Rebbi and the Rabbanan. Rebbi holds 'Osiyos Niknos bi'Mesirah' (one can
acquire an outstanding debt with nothing more than the receipt of the
original Sh'tar). The Rabbanan require a new Sh'tar of sale, as well as the
handing over of the original Sh'tar to the purchaser.
(b) Alternatively, neither Rebbi Meir nor the Rabbanan hold like Rebbi (see
Tosfos DH 'de'Kuli Alma'), and they argue over the new Sh'tar of sale that
the seller wrote, but without inserting 'Acquire it together with all its
Shibudim', as required by Rav Papa.
(c) The Chachamim, who rule 'Einah Mekudeshes' - hold like Rav Papa (or more
correctly, Rav Papa holds like the Rabbanan).
(a) Alternatively, both Tana'im hold like Rav Papa, and they argue over
Shmuel, who says that if someone sells a Sh'tar Chov and then waives the
debt, the debt is canceled - because the obligation of the debtor to the
purchaser stems from the seller (he is claiming the seller's personal debt
[one that is independent of the Sh'tar]), which no longer exists once he
(b) In the event of the creditor's death, Shmuel adds - even his heirs can
waive the debt.
(c) The Chachamim say, 'Hiskadshi Li bi'Sh'tar Chov, Einah Mekudeshes' -
because they hold like Shmuel, in which case, the woman does not bank on
receiving the money, in which case the Kidushin is invalid; whereas Rebbi
Meir holds 'Mekudeshes' - because he does not agree with Shmuel's Din.