(Permission is granted to print and redistribute this material
as long as this header and the footer at the end are included.)


Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld

Ask A Question on the daf

Previous daf

Kidushin 80

KIDUSHIN 77-80 - Ari Kornfeld has generously sponsored the Dafyomi publications for these Dafim for the benefit of Klal Yisrael.


(a) (Reish Lakish): We only rely on children clinging to a mother regarding Terumah, but not regarding lineage.
(b) (R. Yochanan): We also rely on it for lineage.
(c) This is as R. Yochanan said elsewhere.
1. (R, Chiya bar Aba, citing R. Yochanan): We lash, stone and burn people based on Chazakah, but we don't burn Terumah based on Chazakah.
(d) We lash people based on Chazakah - as Rav Yehudah.
1. (Rav Yehudah): A woman was established among her neighbors to be a Nidah - her husband is lashed for having relations with her.
(e) We stone and burn people based on Chazakah - as Rabah bar Rav Huna.
1. (Rabah bar Rav Huna): A man and woman, a boy and girl grew up in the same house - (we assume the children are from these parents) they can be stoned and burned for parent-child relations.
(f) (R. Shimon ben Pazi): It happened, a woman came to Yerushalayim, with a boy on her shoulder; she raised him, and had relations with him - they were stoned.
1. It was not known definitely that he was her son, but he clung to her (as children cling to their mother).
(a) (Reish Lakish): We burn Terumah based on Chazakah.
(b) (R. Yochanan): We don't burn Terumah based on Chazakah
(c) (Mishnah - R. Meir): A child was found by a dough; he was holding a small piece of dough in his hand - the big dough is Tahor;
1. Chachamim say, it is Tamei, because children normally play (Rashi - in trash heaps, and becomes Tamei; Tosfos - with dough, he probably touched the dough).
(d) Question: Why does R. Meir say it is Tahor?
(e) Answer: He holds, most children play, a minority do not; the dough has a Chazakah of being Tahor. We join the minority to the Chazakah - this weakens the majority.
1. Chachamim ignore the minority; the majority overrides the Chazakah.
(f) (Reish Lakish): This is the case in which we burn Terumah based on Chazakah.
(g) (R. Yochanan): This is not the case in which we burn Terumah based on Chazakah.
(h) Question: According to R. Yochanan, what is the case?
(i) Answer (Mishnah): There is a dough in the house, also (Tamei) rodents and frogs (which are Tahor). Pieces of rodents or frogs (we cannot tell which) were found in the dough.
1. If there are more rodents than frogs in the house, the dough is Tamei; if there are more frogs, it is Tahor.
(j) Support (for R. Yochanan - Beraisa): (In doubtful cases of Tumah in which the involved parties do not have understanding that we can ask them what happened, the law is, we assume it is Tahor.) In 2 cases in which the parties lack understanding, Chachamim were stringent to considered them as if they have understanding (so we are stringent in a private domain, lenient in a public domain) - a child and another case.
1. The child - the above case when he is by a dough.
(k) Question: What is the other case?
(l) Answer: There is a dough in the house, also chickens.
There are Tamei liquids in the house; there are holes in the dough from pecking - we suspend the dough, we neither eat it nor burn it.

(m) Answer #1 (R. Yehoshua ben Levi): This is only by white liquids - but by red liquids, if there were drops in the dough, this would be noticed.
(n) Objection: Perhaps they were absorbed in the dough!
(o) Answer #2 (R. Yochanan): By clear liquids (in which a reflection can be seen), drops in the dough would be noticed; by cloudy liquids, we suspend the dough.
(a) (Mishnah): A man may not be secluded with 2 women, but a woman may be secluded with 2 men;
1. R. Shimon says, even 1 man may be secluded with 2 women, if his wife is with him; they may even sleep together in an inn, since his wife will guard him.
(b) A male may be secluded with his mother or daughter, and sleep with her without clothes;
1. When they grow up, they must wear clothes.
(c) (Gemara) Question: Why can't a man be secluded with 2 women?
(d) Answer (Tana d'vei Eliyahu): Because they are easily persuaded.
(e) Question: From where do we know that seclusion is forbidden?
(f) Answer (R. Yochanan): "If your brother, the son of your mother will entice you" - only a maternal brother entices?!
1. Rather, this teaches that a man may be secluded with his mother, not with other women forbidden to him.
(g) Question: What is the simple understanding of the verse?
(h) Answer (Abaye): It teaches a Chidush - not only should one not listen to enticement of a paternal brother, for he hates him (because he decreases his inheritance) - one should not even listen to enticement of a maternal brother, who loves him.
(i) Suggestion: Our Mishnah is not as Aba Sha'ul.
1. (Beraisa): If a baby dies within 30 days - it may be carried out for burial without a coffin, with 1 woman and 2 men, but not with 2 women and 1 man;
i. Aba Sha'ul says, also this is permitted.
(j) Rejection: Our Mishnah is even as Aba Sha'ul - at a time of mourning, the evil inclination is subdued.
1. Chachamim hold as R. Yitzchak.
2. (R. Yitzchak): "On what will a living man Yisonen (complain), he overcomes his sins" - even at a time of Aninus (mourning), a person's evil inclination overpowers him (unless he struggles to overpower it).
3. Aba Sha'ul: The verse speaks of one who complains about Hash-m's ways - "Can a living man (justifiably) complain, did he overcomes his sins?!"
i. It suffices that a person is alive!
4. Chachamim learn from a particular case that we cannot rely on mourning to break the evil inclination.
(a) (Mishnah): A woman may be secluded with 2 men.
(b) (Rav Yehudah citing Rav): This is only with moral men; she may not be secluded even with 10 immoral men.
1. There was a case in which 10 immoral men took a woman out in a coffin to sin with her.
(c) Support (Rav Yosef): Ten men will gather to steal a heavy beam, they are not ashamed of each other.
(d) Suggestion: The following also supports Rav. 1. (Mishnah): We send 2 Chachamim with a man taking a Sotah (his wife) to Yerushalayim to make her drink, lest he have relations with her on the way.
i. We must send Chachamim, not commoners!
(e) Rejection: We need Chachamim so they can warn him (that if he has relations with her, the water will not test her - if not for this, even immoral men could be sent).
(f) (Rav Yehudah citing Rav): A woman may only be with 2 men in the city - but on the road, 3 are needed, so when 1 needs to urinate, she will not be secluded with 1 man.
(g) Suggestion: The following supports Rav.
1. (Mishnah): We send 2 Chachamim with a man taking a Sotah (his wife) to Yerushalayim to make her drink, lest he have relations with her on the way.
i. We need a total of 3 men!
(h) Rejection: We need 2 Chachamim so they can testify (if he has relations with her, that she may not drink; normally, 2 men may be with a woman on the road).
(i) Rav and Rav Yehudah were on the road; a woman was in front of them. Rav advised that they must go in front of her.
1. Rav Yehudah: But you taught that 2 moral men may be with a woman!
2. Rav: Who says that we are moral? Perhaps only people such as R. Chanina bar Papi.
Next daf


For further information on
subscriptions, archives and sponsorships,
contact Kollel Iyun Hadaf,