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Kidushin 70


(a) (Mishnah): Converts and freed slaves.
(b) Question: From where do we know that Chalalim came?
(c) Answer (Rav Chisda): "And everyone that separated from the impurity of the nations (by converting)".
(d) (Mishnah): Mamzerim.
(e) Question: From where do we know that Mamzerim came?
(f) Answer #1: "Tuvya the slave...was the son-in-law of Shechanyahben Arach, and (Tuvya's) son Yehochanan married Meshulach's daughter";
1. The Tana holds that the children of a Bas Yisrael from a Nochri or slave are Mamzerim.
2. Question #1: The one who holds that children of a Bas Yisrael from a Nochri or slave are Kesherim - how can he answer?
3. Question #2: Perhaps Tuvya and his son married Benos Yisrael, but had no children!
4. Question #3: How do we know that the children were born in Bavel and came with Ezra - perhaps they were born in Eretz Yisrael!
(g) Answer #2: "These are those that came up from Tel Melach, Tel Charsha, Keruv, Adon and Imar; they could not tell their lineage, if it was from Yisrael."
1. "Tel Melach (mound of salt)" - this hints at people who act as Sodomites (adulterers);
2. "Tel Charsha (silence)" - this is one whose mother silences talk of who his father is.
3. "They could not tell their lineage, if it was from Yisrael" - these are Asufim;
(a) [Version #1 (R. Avahu): "Keruv, Adon and Imar" - the Adon (Hash-m) said, 'I said Yisrael should be as sanctified as the Keruvim (the figures on top of the Aron), but they made themselves as a Nemer (leopard).]
(b) [Version #2 (R. Avahu): "Keruv, Adon and Imar" - the Adon said, even though Yisrael made themselves as a Nemer, they are important to Me as the Keruvim.
(c) (Rabah bar bar Chanah): "These are those that came up from Tel Melach, Tel Charsha..." - anyone who marries a woman (whose lineage is) not fitting for him, it is as if he deafened the world and made his children as salt.
(d) (Rabah bar Rav Ada): Anyone who marries a woman on account of money, his children will be improper - "They betrayed Hash-m, for they fathered abnormal children".
1. Suggestion: Perhaps their money will not be lost.
2. Rejection: "Their portions will be consumed in a month".
3. Suggestion: Perhaps this only refers to the portion (of her money) for which he is responsible (Tzon Barzel), not the portion for which he has no responsibility (Melug).
4. Rejection: "Their portions".
5. Suggestion: Perhaps this will not happen soon.
6. Rejection: "In a month".
(e) (Rabah bar Rav Ada): Anyone who marries an unfitting woman, Eliyahu ties him and Hash-m lashes him.
(a) Anyone that constantly degrades people - he himself is illegitimate.
1. (Shmuel): He will debase other people with his own disqualification.
(b) A man of Nehardai entered a butchery in Pumbadisa; he was told to wait until Rav Yehudah bar Yechezkel's servant received his meat.
1. The man: Who is this Yehudah bar Shviskel (glutton), that I should wait for him?!
2. Upon hearing of this, Rav Yehudah excommunicated the man; upon hearing that he always calls people slaves, Rav Yehudah announced that the man is a slave.
3. The man summonsed Rav Yehudah for judgment in front of Rav Nachman; Rav Yehudah received the summons, and was unsure if he should go.
4. Rav Huna: Since you are greater than Rav Nachman, you need not go - but you should go, to honor the Nasi (whose daughter Rav Nachman had married).
5. Rav Yehudah wanted to show Rav Nachman that he should not have been summonsed. He saw Rav Nachman building a Ma'akah (railing) around his roof.
6. Rav Yehudah: Shmuel taught, a community leader may not work in front of 3 people!
7. Rav Nachman: It is only a small enclosure.
8. Rav Yehudah rebuked him repeatedly for speaking a flowery language (as is spoken by the Reish Galusa), unlike the language of Chachamim or common people.
9. Rav Nachman: Let my daughter serve us drinks.
10. Rav Yehudah: Shmuel taught, one may not use a woman among men, even a minor.
11. Rav Nachman: Would you like to send regards to my wife?
12. Rav Yehudah: (She will respond, and) one may not hear a woman's voice.

13. Rav Nachman: You can send regards through me!
14. Rav Yehudah: Shmuel said, we do not greet women at all.
(c) Rav Nachman asked why Rav Yehudah had come; when he saw the summons, he regretted it, but suggested hearing the case so it should not appear that Chachamim cover up for each other.
1. Rav Nachman: Why did you excommunicate the man?
2. Rav Yehudah: He annoyed the messenger of a Chacham.
i. Rav lashes for this - I was even stricter.
3. Rav Nachman: Why did you announce that he is a slave?
4. Rav Yehudah: Because he constantly calls other people slaves;
i. Anyone that constantly degrades people - he himself is illegitimate;
ii. (Shmuel): He will debase other people with his own disqualification.
5. Rav Nachman: Granted, Shmuel said we should be concerned that he has that disqualification - he did not say that we announce it!
6. The man: You call me a slave? I come from the royal family of Chashmonai!
7. Rav Yehudah: Shmuel taught, anyone that claims to be from the Chashmona'im, he is a slave.
8. Rav Nachman: But R. Aba taught, a Chacham is not believed to recite a new teaching if the case already arose!
9. Rav Yehudah: Rav Masnah also heard this from Shmuel.
i. Rav Masnah had not been in Nehardai for 13 years - that day, he came.
10. (Rav Masnah citing Shmuel): Anyone that claims to be from the Chashmona'im, he is a slave - we learn this from the testimony of a girl, the last (true) remnant of the Chashmona'im, just before she killed herself.
11. Rav Nachman announced that the man is a slave; that day, the 'Chashmonai' women tore their Kesuvos.
(d) As Rav Yehudah was leaving, people wanted to stone him (for having revealed lineage problems).
1. Rav Yehudah: If you cause problems, I will reveal what Shmuel said about 2 families of Nehardai.
i. One was assumed to have proper lineage, the other improper - both of these were wrong.
2. The people dropped their rocks.
(e) Rav Yehudah (in Pumbadisa), Rava, Rav Yosef and Abaye all announced about people of improper lineage.
(f) (Rav Yehudah): Four hundred (some say, 4,000) slaves intermarried with Kohanim (in the days of Yirmeyah) - any brazen Kohen is from them.
1. (Abaye): They are all in Nehardai.
(g) (R. Elazar): Brazenness is normal among (even proper) Kohanim - "As quarreling Kohanim".
(a) (Ravin bar Rav Ada): When Hash-m restores His Presence to us, He will testify on all the tribes, but not on someone who marries a woman of unfitting lineage.
1. "The tribes of Hash-m, testimony to Yisrael" - the testimony is only when they are tribes of Hash-m.
(b) (R. Chama bar Chanina): Hash-m will only rest his Presence on families of proper lineage - "I will be L-rd to all families of Yisrael, and they will be to Me a nation."
(c) (Rabah bar Rav Huna): By Yisrael, Hash-m will be L-rd to Yisrael, causing them to be to Him a nation;
1. By converts, they must choose to be part of His nation, then he will be L-rd to them.
(d) (R. Chelbo): Converts are as problematic for Yisrael as Tzara'as - "the converts will be Nispechu (added) to Yisrael";
1. This is the language of Sapachas (a type of plague).
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