POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
Ask A Question on the daf
Previous daf Kidushin 70
1) THE GENEOLOGIES OF THOSE WHO CAME TO ERETZ YISRAEL
(a) (Mishnah): Converts and freed slaves.
2) PEOPLE THAT DO NOT KEEP A PURE LINEAGE
(b) Question: From where do we know that Chalalim came?
(c) Answer (Rav Chisda): "And everyone that separated from
the impurity of the nations (by converting)".
(d) (Mishnah): Mamzerim.
(e) Question: From where do we know that Mamzerim came?
(f) Answer #1: "Tuvya the slave...was the son-in-law of
Shechanyahben Arach, and (Tuvya's) son Yehochanan married
1. The Tana holds that the children of a Bas Yisrael
from a Nochri or slave are Mamzerim.
(g) Answer #2: "These are those that came up from Tel Melach,
Tel Charsha, Keruv, Adon and Imar; they could not tell
their lineage, if it was from Yisrael."
2. Question #1: The one who holds that children of a
Bas Yisrael from a Nochri or slave are Kesherim -
how can he answer?
3. Question #2: Perhaps Tuvya and his son married Benos
Yisrael, but had no children!
4. Question #3: How do we know that the children were
born in Bavel and came with Ezra - perhaps they were
born in Eretz Yisrael!
1. "Tel Melach (mound of salt)" - this hints at people
who act as Sodomites (adulterers);
2. "Tel Charsha (silence)" - this is one whose mother
silences talk of who his father is.
3. "They could not tell their lineage, if it was from
Yisrael" - these are Asufim;
(a) [Version #1 (R. Avahu): "Keruv, Adon and Imar" - the Adon
(Hash-m) said, 'I said Yisrael should be as sanctified as
the Keruvim (the figures on top of the Aron), but they
made themselves as a Nemer (leopard).]
3) SIGNS OF IMPROPER LINEAGE
(b) [Version #2 (R. Avahu): "Keruv, Adon and Imar" - the Adon
said, even though Yisrael made themselves as a Nemer,
they are important to Me as the Keruvim.
(c) (Rabah bar bar Chanah): "These are those that came up
from Tel Melach, Tel Charsha..." - anyone who marries a
woman (whose lineage is) not fitting for him, it is as if
he deafened the world and made his children as salt.
(d) (Rabah bar Rav Ada): Anyone who marries a woman on
account of money, his children will be improper - "They
betrayed Hash-m, for they fathered abnormal children".
1. Suggestion: Perhaps their money will not be lost.
(e) (Rabah bar Rav Ada): Anyone who marries an unfitting
woman, Eliyahu ties him and Hash-m lashes him.
2. Rejection: "Their portions will be consumed in a
3. Suggestion: Perhaps this only refers to the portion
(of her money) for which he is responsible (Tzon
Barzel), not the portion for which he has no
4. Rejection: "Their portions".
5. Suggestion: Perhaps this will not happen soon.
6. Rejection: "In a month".
(a) Anyone that constantly degrades people - he himself is
1. (Shmuel): He will debase other people with his own
(b) A man of Nehardai entered a butchery in Pumbadisa; he was
told to wait until Rav Yehudah bar Yechezkel's servant
received his meat.
1. The man: Who is this Yehudah bar Shviskel (glutton),
that I should wait for him?!
2. Upon hearing of this, Rav Yehudah excommunicated the
man; upon hearing that he always calls people
slaves, Rav Yehudah announced that the man is a
3. The man summonsed Rav Yehudah for judgment in front
of Rav Nachman; Rav Yehudah received the summons,
and was unsure if he should go.
4. Rav Huna: Since you are greater than Rav Nachman,
you need not go - but you should go, to honor the
Nasi (whose daughter Rav Nachman had married).
5. Rav Yehudah wanted to show Rav Nachman that he
should not have been summonsed. He saw Rav Nachman
building a Ma'akah (railing) around his roof.
6. Rav Yehudah: Shmuel taught, a community leader may
not work in front of 3 people!
7. Rav Nachman: It is only a small enclosure.
8. Rav Yehudah rebuked him repeatedly for speaking a
flowery language (as is spoken by the Reish Galusa),
unlike the language of Chachamim or common people.
9. Rav Nachman: Let my daughter serve us drinks.
10. Rav Yehudah: Shmuel taught, one may not use a woman
among men, even a minor.
11. Rav Nachman: Would you like to send regards to my
12. Rav Yehudah: (She will respond, and) one may not
hear a woman's voice.
4) ON WHOM WILL THE DIVINE PRESENCE REST?
13. Rav Nachman: You can send regards through me!
(c) Rav Nachman asked why Rav Yehudah had come; when he saw
the summons, he regretted it, but suggested hearing the
case so it should not appear that Chachamim cover up for
14. Rav Yehudah: Shmuel said, we do not greet women at
1. Rav Nachman: Why did you excommunicate the man?
(d) As Rav Yehudah was leaving, people wanted to stone him
(for having revealed lineage problems).
2. Rav Yehudah: He annoyed the messenger of a Chacham.
i. Rav lashes for this - I was even stricter.
3. Rav Nachman: Why did you announce that he is a
4. Rav Yehudah: Because he constantly calls other
i. Anyone that constantly degrades people - he
himself is illegitimate;
5. Rav Nachman: Granted, Shmuel said we should be
concerned that he has that disqualification - he did
not say that we announce it!
ii. (Shmuel): He will debase other people with his
6. The man: You call me a slave? I come from the royal
family of Chashmonai!
7. Rav Yehudah: Shmuel taught, anyone that claims to be
from the Chashmona'im, he is a slave.
8. Rav Nachman: But R. Aba taught, a Chacham is not
believed to recite a new teaching if the case
9. Rav Yehudah: Rav Masnah also heard this from Shmuel.
i. Rav Masnah had not been in Nehardai for 13
years - that day, he came.
10. (Rav Masnah citing Shmuel): Anyone that claims to be
from the Chashmona'im, he is a slave - we learn this
from the testimony of a girl, the last (true)
remnant of the Chashmona'im, just before she killed
11. Rav Nachman announced that the man is a slave; that
day, the 'Chashmonai' women tore their Kesuvos.
1. Rav Yehudah: If you cause problems, I will reveal
what Shmuel said about 2 families of Nehardai.
(e) Rav Yehudah (in Pumbadisa), Rava, Rav Yosef and Abaye all
announced about people of improper lineage.
i. One was assumed to have proper lineage, the
other improper - both of these were wrong.
2. The people dropped their rocks.
(f) (Rav Yehudah): Four hundred (some say, 4,000) slaves
intermarried with Kohanim (in the days of Yirmeyah) - any
brazen Kohen is from them.
1. (Abaye): They are all in Nehardai.
(g) (R. Elazar): Brazenness is normal among (even proper)
Kohanim - "As quarreling Kohanim".
(a) (Ravin bar Rav Ada): When Hash-m restores His Presence to
us, He will testify on all the tribes, but not on someone
who marries a woman of unfitting lineage.
1. "The tribes of Hash-m, testimony to Yisrael" - the
testimony is only when they are tribes of Hash-m.
(b) (R. Chama bar Chanina): Hash-m will only rest his
Presence on families of proper lineage - "I will be L-rd
to all families of Yisrael, and they will be to Me a
(c) (Rabah bar Rav Huna): By Yisrael, Hash-m will be L-rd to
Yisrael, causing them to be to Him a nation;
1. By converts, they must choose to be part of His
nation, then he will be L-rd to them.
(d) (R. Chelbo): Converts are as problematic for Yisrael as
Tzara'as - "the converts will be Nispechu (added) to
1. This is the language of Sapachas (a type of plague).