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Kidushin 68

KIDUSHIN 68 - This Daf has been dedicated l'Iluy Nishmas Harav Ze'ev Wolf Rosengarten of Zurich, Switzerland (Yahrzeit: 14 Adar 5760) by his nephew and Talmid, Eli Rosengarten of Zurich.


(a) Answer #3 (R. Yonah): "Any of these abominations" - the Torah equates all incestuous relations (and a wife's sister is among them);
1. Just as Kidushin cannot take effect by a wife's sister, also by all incestuous relationships.
(b) Question: If so, Kidushin should not take effect on a Nidah (since Nidah is included in the Parsha)!
1. (Abaye): All agree that a child resulting from relations with a Nidah or a Sotah is not a Mamzer.
(i) (Chizkiyah): "Va'tehi (will be) her (Tum'ah of) Nidah on him" - even when she is a Nidah, Havayah (Kidushin) applies to her.
2. Question: (The Torah specified that Kidushin takes effect on a Nidah, not on one's wife's sister.) Why equate other relatives to a wife's sister, and not to a Nidah?
3. Answer #1: If there are 2 possibilities, we equate things in the more stringent way.
4. Answer #2 (Rav Acha bar Yakov): From a Yevamah, we see that we are stringent.
(i) A Yevamah that has relations with a stranger is only forbidden by a Lav, yet a stranger cannot Mekadesh her - all the more so, relationships punishable by death and Kares!
(a) Question: If as Rav Acha bar Yakov, we should learn that Kidushin cannot take effect even by Chayevei Lavin!
(b) Answer (Rav Papa): A verse teaches that Kidushin takes effect by Chayevei Lavin.
1. Question: "When a man will have 2 wives, 1 beloved and 1 hated" - why should his love or hatred for his wives affect inheritance?!
2. Answer: Rather, the marriages are beloved and hated (i.e., 1 is forbidden) - and the Torah used a language of Havayah (Kidushin)!
(c) Question: R. Akiva holds that Kidushin does not take effect by Chayevei Lavin - how does he explain the verse?
(d) Answer: As R. Simai explains R. Akiva, the verse can speak of a Kohen Gadol, 1 of his wives is a widow.
1. (Beraisa - R. Simai): R. Akiva says that children from all forbidden relations are Mamzerim (and if so, there cannot be Kidushin between the parents), except for a widow that marries a Kohen Gadol, for there the Torah said "He will not take...he will not profane";
(i) He makes his children profaned (Chalalim), not Mamzerim.
(e) R. Yeshevav says that R. Akiva holds that any forbidden relationship with a Yisraelis produces Mamzerim;
1. If R. Yeshevav came to argue on R. Simai - he only speaks of Chayavei Lavin of Kohanim, but he admits that relations forbidden by an Aseh do not make Mamzerim. If so, the verse can speak of such a marriage.
2. Question: If R. Yeshevav's statement stands on its own (and applies in all cases), how does R. Akiva explain the verse?
3. Answer: It speaks of a Kohen Gadol who married a girl that was not a virgin.
4. Question: Why is this different than any other Chaivei Aseh (which produces Mamzerim)?
5. Answer: Because the prohibition does not apply to everyone (a Kohen Gadol is the only man commanded about this).
(f) Question: Why do Chachamim say that the verse speaks of Chaivei Lavin - let them learn a smaller Chidush, it speaks of a Chaivei Aseh!
1. Answer: There is no Chaivei Aseh it could speak of!
(i) If his wives are Mitzriyos - both marriages are hated!
(ii) If 1 wife is a Mitzris, the other a Bas Yisrael - the verse connotes wives of the same nation!
(iii) If it speaks of a Kohen Gadol who married a non-virgin - the verse speaks of a man that has 2 wives, not specifically the Kohen Gadol!
(iv) Even though R. Akiva learns this way (according to R. Simai) - he only does so because he has no alternative.
(a) (Mishnah): Any woman that cannot be Mekudeshes to any man...
(b) Question: How do we know that a Kana'anis slave cannot be Mekudeshes?
(c) Answer (Rav Huna): "Stay with the donkey" (this was said to Eliezer) - slaves are as a donkey (by which Kidushin does not apply).

(d) Question: How do we know that children of a Kana'anis slave are slaves?
(e) Answer: "The (Kana'anis slave) and her children (from a Yisrael slave) will be to her master".
(f) Question: How do we know that a Yisrael cannot Mekadesh a Nochris?
(g) Answer: "Do not intermarry with them".
(h) Question: How do we know that children of a Nochris are Nochrim?
(i) [Version #1 (Rashi) Answer (R. Yochanan): "(If you will marry your daughter to a Nochri), he will veer your son away from Me" - the son (really, grandson) you have from a Yisraelis (your daughter, even if she married a Nochri) is called your son;
1. The (grand)son you have from a Nochris (if you married your son to a Nochris) is not called your son (he is a Nochri).
2. (Ravina): We learn, the son of your daughter that comes from a Nochri is called your son.]
(j) [Version #2 (Tosfos) Answer (R. Yochanan): "(If you will marry your son to a Nochri's daughter, the Nochri) will veer your son away from Me (i.e. your son's children will be Nochrim)"
1. The son you (or any Yisrael) has from a Yisraelis (your wife) is called your son, but the son you have through a Nochris is not called your son (he is a Nochri).
2. (Ravina): We learn, the son of your daughter that comes from a Nochri is called your son (from the fact that the Torah was not concerned that your daughter's children would be veered away from Hash-m, i.e. Nochrim)].
(k) Question: "Do not intermarry with them" was only said by the 7 Kana'ani nations - how do we know about a woman of another nation (that she cannot be Mekudeshes, and her children are as her)?
(l) Answer: "He will veer your son" - anyone that will veer (all Nochrim).
1. This is as R. Shimon, who derives laws based on (his understanding of) the purpose of Mitzvos.
2. Question: How will Chachamim learn regarding the other nations?
3. Answer: "After (she converts), you will have relations with (a beautiful Nochris you find in war, and take her as a wife)" - implying, you could not Mekadesh her before this.
4. Question: How do Chachamim know that children of a Nochris are Nochrim?
5. Answer: "When Tiheyenah (will be married) to a man 2 wives, and they will bear children to him" - the children are only attributed to him when his wife could be married to him.
6. Question: If so, this is also a source that children of a slave are slaves!
7. Answer: That is true!
8. Question: What do we learn from "The (slave) and her children will be to her master"?
9. Answer (Beraisa - R. Yosi ha'Galili): One who writes in a Get of freedom to his (pregnant) slave 'you are free, and the child you are carrying is a slave' - the child is (free) as her;
(i) Chachamim say, his words are fulfilled - "The (slave) and her children will be to her master".
(ii) Question: How do they learn this law from the verse?
(iii) Answer: The verse is the source for R. Yosi ha'Galili's law (the child is only to the master when his mother is to the master).
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