POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Kidushin 67
KIDUSHIN 67 (Tamuz 22) - dedicated by Zvi and Tamara Sand of Har
Nof, Yerushalayim, for the Yahrzeit of Tamara's father, Shlomo
Zevulun ben Yakov Tzvi Ben-David.
1) ACCEPTABILITY OF THE CHILDREN
(a) (Gemara - Reish Lakish) Question: Is the rule of our
Mishnah (in any permitted marriage, the children are
determined by the father) always true?
1. A convert may marry a Mamzeres, but the children are
as the blemished one (the mother)!
(b) Answer #1 (R. Yochanan): The Mishnah is not as R. Yosi,
rather as R. Yehudah, who says that a convert may not
marry a Mamzeres!
(i) (Beraisa - R. Yosi): If a convert married a Mamzeres, the
children are Mamzerim.
1. This is a forbidden marriage in which Kidushin takes
effect, so the child is determined by the blemished
(c) Answer #2: Really, the Mishnah is as R. Yosi; by saying
'this is', it excludes cases not listed explicitly.
2. Question: Why didn't the Mishnah list this among the
cases of forbidden marriages?
3. Answer: When it says 'any', it includes this.
(d) Question #1: But a Chalal that married a Bas Yisrael -
the marriage is permitted, and the children are
determined by the father (and this was not listed)!
(e) Answer: Our Tana holds as R. Yehudah ben Dosta'i, that
children of a Bas Yisrael and Chalal are Kesherim.
(f) Question #2: But a Yisrael that married a Chalalah - the
marriage is permitted, and the children are determined by
the father (and this was not listed)!
(g) Answer: When it says 'any permitted marriage', it
(h) Question: Why wasn't it taught explicitly?
(i) Answer: It could not be concisely taught with the other
1. If it would say 'the daughter of a Kohen, Levi or
Yisrael, or a Chalalah, that married a Kohen. Levi
or Yisrael' - but a Chalalah may not marry a Kohen!
(j) Question: Why wasn't Rabah bar bar Chanah's case taught
1. (Rabah bar bar Chanah citing R. Yochanan): A second
generation Mitzri (the son of a Mitzri convert) that
married a first generation Mitzris - the child is
considered a third generation Mitzri (and may marry
a Yisrael - we see, we go after the father).
(k) Answer: When it says 'any permitted marriage', it
1. According to Rav Dimi (who says that in Rabah bar
bar Chanah's case, the child is a second generation
Mitzri), the Mishnah says 'this is' to exclude this
(l) Question: But Ravin cited R. Yochanan as saying that when
Nochrim of different nations marry, the children follow
the father; if converts from different nations marry, the
children receive the prohibitions of both parents. (Since
the marriage is permitted, we should follow the father!)
(m) Answer: 'This is' excludes this case.
(n) Question: How could we say ((c) Answer #2\) the Mishnah
is as R. Yosi?!
1. If the Mishnah is as R. Yehudah - the first clause
says 'Any permitted marriage' to include a Yisrael
that married a Chalalah, and Rabah bar bar Chanah's
(i) 'This is' excludes Rav Dimi's and Ravin's cases;
2) TRUSTWORTHINESS OF LINEAGE OUTSIDE OF YISRAEL
(ii) The second clause says 'Any permitted marriage' to include a
convert that married a Mamzeres;
2. But if the Mishnah is as R. Yosi - we can explain
'Any permitted marriage' and 'This is' of the first
clause as above;
(i) But in the second clause - what does 'Any permitted
3. Answer: Also according to R. Yosi, 'Any permitted
marriage' is just for parallel structure.
(ii) Counter-question: If the Mishnah is as R. Yehudah - what does
'This is' of the second clause exclude?
(iii) Answer: You must say, it doesn't include anything, it was
taught for parallel structure.
(a) (Ravin, citing R. Yochanan): When Nochrim of different
nations marry, the children follow the father; if
converts from different nations marry, the children
receive the prohibitions of both parents.
3) WHAT MAKES A MAMZER?
(b) Question: What does the first part say?
(c) Answer (Beraisa): "Also from the children of the
residents, you may buy (slaves)" - if a Nochri fathered a
child through a Kana'anis, we may buy the child (he is
not a Kana'ani, by whom it says "Do not leave any soul
1. Suggestion: Perhaps this also applies to a Kana'ani
that fathered a child through a Nochris of a
(d) (Ravin): If converts from different nations marry, the
children receive the prohibitions of both parents.
2. Rejection: "That Holidu in your land" - we may buy
from those born in our land (i.e. the mother is from
our land), not from those fathered by residents of
(e) Question: What is the case?
1. Suggestion: A Mitzri married an Amonis.
(f) Answer: Rather, an Amoni married a (first generation)
2. Rejection: She has no prohibition - only male Amomin
1. If the child is a boy - he is an Amomi (and he and
his sons may not marry into Yisrael);
2. If the child is a girl - she is a (second
generation) Mitzris (and she may not marry into
Yisrael, but her children may).
(a) (Mishnah): If Reuven cannot Mekadesh Leah, but other men
can Mekadesh her - children of Reuven and Leah are
(b) Question: From where do we know this?
(c) Answer #1 (R. Chiya bar Aba): "She will leave his house
and be to another man" - to others, not to relatives.
1. Question (R. Aba): Why not say - to others, not to
(d) Answer #2: We learn from one's wife's sister.
2. Answer: We already know this - "A man will not marry
his father's wife"!
(i) Rather, it must be, "another" forbids marrying other
3. Question: Perhaps 2 verses are needed for the son -
1, that l'Chatchilah she may not marry him; the
other that even b'Dieved, she is not Mekudeshes!
4. Answer: We already know that l'Chatchilah she may
not marry him from the prohibition to marry one's
(i) The punishment for relations with one's wife's sister is
Kares, one may not Mekadesh her - all the more so, one
may not Mekadesh relatives by which one is killed for
relations with them!
5. Question: Perhaps 2 verses are needed for one's
wife's sister - 1, that l'Chatchilah she may not
marry him; the other that even b'Dieved, she is not
6. Answer: That is correct - "another" teaches that
even b'Dieved, she is not Mekudeshes to her sister's
7. Question: From where do we know by other relatives?
1. The punishment for relations with one's wife's
sister is Kares (if intentional) or a sin-offering
(if unintentional), Kidushin does not take effect by
her - also every incestuous relationship punishable
by Kares or a sin-offering, Kidushin does not take
2. Question: This answer works for almost all forbidden
relationships - but not for a brother's wife or
another man's wife!
(i) We cannot learn to a brother's wife, for she is permitted
in a situation of Yibum, whereas a wife's sister is never
permitted for a Mitzvah!
(ii) We cannot learn to another man's wife, for she can be
permitted (through a Get) in the life of the one who caused
her to be forbidden (her husband), unlike a wife's sister!