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Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld

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Kidushin 63

KIDUSHIN 61-65 - Ari Kornfeld has generously sponsored the Dafyomi publications for these Dafim for the benefit of Klal Yisrael.


(a) (Abaye): R. Eliezer ben Yakov, Rebbi and R. Meir all hold that one can stipulate to make an transaction in the future, even if the transaction could not be done now.
1. R. Eliezer ben Yakov - as above;
2. Rebbi - as in the (Beraisa - Rebbi): "Do not return a slave to his master" - the case is, Reuven bought a slave on condition to free him.
i. Question: What is the case?
ii. Answer (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): He wrote a document saying 'When I buy you, you are acquired to yourself.'
(b) R. Meir - as in the (Beraisa): If David stipulates that Rinah should be Mekudeshes to him after any of the following obstacles to Kidushin is removed, she is not Mekudeshes:
1. After he converts or is freed;
2. After she converts or is freed;
3. After the death of her husband or her sister (David's wife);
4. After she does Chalitzah.
5. R. Meir says, she is Mekudeshes; R. Yochanan ha'Sandlar says, she is not;
6. Rebbi Yehudah ha'Nasi says, letter of the law, she is Mekudeshes; Chachamim enacted that she is not (in the cases of after her husband or sister dies), on account of animosity (so her husband or sister should not feel that she hopes they will die).
(c) Question: Abaye should also list R. Yehudah ha'Nasi (for he agrees that the stipulation works)!
(d) Answer: He did list him - R. Yehudah ha'Nasi is Rebbi.
(e) Question: Abaye should also list R. Akiva!
1. (Mishnah): A woman said to her husband 'What I produce is forbidden to you as a sacrifice' - this vow need not be annulled (since she is obligated to work for him, she cannot forbid this);
2. R. Akiva says, he should annul it, perhaps she will produce more than she is obligated, and the vow takes effect on the extra (even though there was nothing extra when she vowed).
(f) Answer (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua): The case is, she said 'My hands are sanctified to their Maker' - her hands are around at the time of the vow.
(a) (Mishnah): 'You are Mekudeshes to me on condition that I speak on behalf of you to the ruler', or 'on condition that I work for you' - if he did so, she is Mekudeshes, if not, not.
(b) (Gemara - Reish Lakish): The case is, he gave her Kidushin money when he made this stipulation.
(c) Question #1: Why can't she be Mekudeshes through the value of his service?
1. (Beraisa): 'You are Mekudeshes to me as payment for my letting you ride on the donkey (or in the wagon or ship)' - she is Mekudeshes.
2. Suggestion: Perhaps the case is, he also gave her Kidushin money.
3. Rejection: But he said, 'as payment for'!
(d) Question #2 (Beraisa): A woman told a man 'Keep me company, and I will be Mekudeshes to you' or 'jest in front of me, or dance in front of me, act for me as in a play' - if we estimate that this is worth a Perutah, she is Mekudeshes; if not, not.
1. Suggestion: If the case is, he also gave her Kidushin money - there would be no need to evaluate his performance!
2. This refutes Reish Lakish.
(e) Answer (Reish Lakish): The Tana of the Beraisos holds that wages are not owed until the completion of a job (therefore, it is as if he gives her money at the end);
1. The Tana of our Mishnah holds that wages accrue from the start of the job until the end (it is considered as a debt, and a loan cannot Mekadesh).
(f) Question: What forced Reish Lakish to say that the Tana holds that wages accrue from the start of the job until the end, and he also gave her Kidushin money?
(g) Answer (Rava): He was bothered - why did the Mishnah say 'on condition that', and not 'as payment for'?
1. He concluded, it must be because the service is not the Kidushin money.
(a) (Mishnah): 'On condition that (my) father will want (that you be Mekudeshes to me)' - if he wanted, she is Mekudeshes; if not, she is not Mekudeshes;
1. If the father died, she is Mekudeshes; if the son dies, we counsel the father to say he does not want.
(b) (Gemara) Question: What is meant by 'On condition that father will want'?
1. Suggestion: On condition that he will say 'yes'.
2. Rejection: But if the father died, she is Mekudeshes, even though he didn't say anything!

(c) Answer #1: Rather, it means on condition that he will be silent.
1. Objection: But the end of the Mishnah says, if the son dies, we counsel the father to say he does not want - how does this help, he was already silent!
(d) Answer #2: Rather, in the latter cases of the Mishnah, he explicitly said 'on condition that he will not protest'.
1. Objection: We do not want to say that the last cases of the Mishnah are different than the first case of the Mishnah!
2. Answer (R. Yanai): Indeed, this is so!
i. (Reish Lakish): R. Yanai holds that when clauses of a Mishnah contradict each other, it is better to say that they speak in different cases, than to say that different Tana'im taught them.
(e) Answer #3 (Rav Yosef bar Ami): The Mishnah is all 1 case - he said, 'on condition that father will want';
1. He means, on condition that father will not protest within 30 days.
(a) (Mishnah): Reuven does not know to whom he was Mekadesh his daughter; David came and said, it was to me - he is believed;
(b) If Moshe also claims that he was Mekadesh her - both men divorce her;
1. If they agree, 1 can divorce her, the other can marry her.
(c) (Gemara - Rav): (In the first case) David is believed to divorce her (and then she may marry anyone), but he is not believed to marry her.
1. He is believed to divorce her - we are not concerned that he is lying (i.e. he is not the one that was Mekadesh her), for a person does not sin unless he hopes to benefit from it;
2. He is not believed to marry her - perhaps his lust overcame him.
(d) (Rav Asi): He is even believed to marry her.
1. Rav Asi admits, if a woman says 'I am Mekudeshes, I do not remember to whom', and Shimon says 'to me', he is not believed to marry her.
(e) Question (Mishnah): If they agree, 1 can divorce her, the other can marry her - this refutes Rav!
(f) Answer (Rav): That case is different - since another man contradicts him, he would be afraid to marry her if he did not really Mekadesh her.
(g) Support (for Rav Asi - Beraisa): Reuven was Mekadesh his daughter, but he doesn't remember to whom; David says, it was to me - he is even believed to marry her.
1. If after he marries her, Moshe says 'she was Mekudeshes to me', he is not believed to forbid her to David.
2. A woman doesn't remember to whom she was Mekadesh herself; David says, it was to me - he is not believed to marry her, for she will agree even if it is not true (for she fears that she will never be able to remarry).
(a) Question: If a father says that he was Mekadesh his daughter, do we kill someone that has relations with her?
(b) Answer #1 (Rav): No.
(c) Answer #2 (Rav Asi): Yes.
1. Rav holds that the Torah believed the father to say that she is forbidden, but not that we should kill people;
2. Rav Asi says that the Torah believed the father in all respects.
(d) (Rav Asi): I admit, we do not kill based on her admission that she was Mekadesh herself.
(e) (Rav Asi): Seemingly, I contradict myself!
1. When the father was Mekadesh her (but forgot to whom), a man is believed to marry her - and a father is believed totally that she is Mekudeshes, even to kill people;
2. When she was Mekadesh herself (but forgot to whom), a man is not believed to marry her - all the more so, we should say that she is believed totally that she is Mekudeshes, even to kill people!
(f) Answer (Rav Asi): This is not difficult -The Torah only believed the father, not her. (In any case, when she says she is Mekudeshes, she is forbidden to other men because of her admission.)
(g) (Rav Chisda): We do not kill based on what the father or she herself says.
(h) This is consistent with Rav Chisda's law of when a parent is believed.
1. (Rav Chisda): If a man says that his son is over 9 years old, or his daughter is over 3 (so their marital relations are considered relations) - he is believed regarding sacrifices, but not to lash or kill one who has forbidden relations with them.
2. Support (Beraisa): A man said, my son or daughter is Bar or Bas Mitzvah - he is believed regarding if the child vowed, made Cheramim or Hekdesh, or pledged Erchin (they take effect);
i. He is not believed that the child will be lashed or killed if he or she transgressed.
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