ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Kesuvos 16
KESUVOS 16-19 - have been anonymously dedicated by a unique Ohev Torah and
Marbitz Torah living in Ramat Beit Shemesh, Israel.
(a) According to Raban Gamliel, our Mishnah does not believe the woman to
say she was a Besulah when she married, because the husband too, is a
'Bari', just as she is - whereas, in the previous Perek, he did believe her,
because the woman was 'Bari' and the man, 'Shema'.
(b) We might have thought otherwise - because the 'Rov' that most women who
marry are Besulos, strengthens her argument, almost turning his 'Bari' into
(c) We attempt to prove that the author not only *can be*, but *must be*
Raban Gamliel, from the Seifa, where Rebbi Yehoshua concedes to Raban
Gamliel that 'Peh she'Asar Hu ha'Peh she'Hitir' - because, if it is not
Raban Gamliel in the Reisha, who is coming to concede something to Rebbi
Yehoshua, why should Rebbi Yehoshua suddenly concede to Raban Gamliel in the
(d) We refute this proof however - on the grounds that Rebbi Yehoshua may
well be conceding to Raban Gamliel following their dispute in the first
Perek (as we shall now see).
(a) Rebbi Yehoshua's concession cannot refer to their dispute in the Mishnah
1. ... 'Haysah Me'uberes, ve'Amru Lah Mah Tivo shel Ubar Zeh' - because
there is no 'Migu' there. She is pregnant, so what could she possibly have
said other than 'me'Ish P'loni ve'Kohen Hu'?
(b) Despite the absence of a 'Migu' in those cases, she is believed -
because she has a Chezkas Kashrus (until proven otherwise).
2 ... 'Ra'uhah Medaberes im Echad ve'Amru Lah Mah Tivo shel Ish Zeh ... ' -
there is no 'Migu' either (at least, not according to Rav Asi, who explained
there that 'Medaberes' means that they had seen her being intimate with the
(c) In fact, the latter case will only not work out according to Rav Asi
(who interprets 'Medaberes' to mean intimacy, and who in fact, was
disproved), but according to Ze'iri, it could well be the case we are
searching for - because 'Medaberes', according to him, means that they
secluded themselves, in which case, she said 'Ish P'loni, ve'Kohen Hu'
(admitting that they *had been intimate*), when she could have said that
they were *not*.
(a) Nor can Rebbi Yehoshua's concession refer to their Machlokes in the
Mishnah of 'Hi Omeres Mukas Eitz Ani, ve'Hu Omer Lo Ki Ela D'rusas Ish At' -
because there too, there is no better argument that she could have
(b) Nevertheless, she is believed - because of her Chezkas Kashrus.
(c) In fact, the latter case will only not work out according to Rebbi
Yochanan, who establishes the Machlokes by 'Masayim u'Manah', but according
to Rebbi Elazar who establishes it by 'Manah ve'Lo K'lum', it could well be
the case we are searching for - seeing as she said 'Mukas Eitz Ani' (in
which case she will receive a Manah), when she could have 'Mukas Eitz Ani
Tachtecha' (and she would have received two hundred Zuz).
(d) Raban Gamliel and Rebbi Yehoshua argue over 'Migu' - in the case of
'mi'she'Eirastani Ne'enasti ... ', where, according to Raban Gamliel she is
believed because she could have said 'Mukas Eitz Ani Tachtecha'.
(a) Rebbi Yehoshua concedes to Raban Gamliel with regard to 'ha'Peh
she'Asar' (even by 'Bari u'Bari'), but not with regard to 'Migu' (even by
'Bari ve'Shema') - because with 'Peh she'Asar', had the current owner
remained silent, it would never have occurred to his friend to claim (i.e.
there would not even be a case without the defendant's admission), whereas,
in the case of 'Migu', the claimant could hardly have failed to claim,
seeing as he found his wife to be a Be'ulah.
(b) Neither does Rebbi Yehoshua consider 'Migu' a strong proof in its own
right - because it may simply not have occurred to the defendant to present
the better claim, or perhaps he is simply trying to win his case, by
conveying the impression that he is telling the truth.
(c) We learned above that the fact that the majority of women are Besulos
when they marry, almost makes our Mishnah a case of 'Bari ve'Shema';
'almost', but not quite - because every Besulah who marries *has a Kol*
(i.e. it is generally known that she was a Besulah). Consequently, the fact
that this woman does *not*, detracts from the 'Rov'.
(d) We conclude however, that it is *most* women who marry Besulos who have
a 'Kol' to substantiate it, not *every* woman - because if every woman did,
then, whenever there was no 'Kol', even the witnesses would be considered to
be false, and would not be believed.
(a) By permitting the woman to claim two hundred Zuz on the basis of
witnesses who testify that she was a Besulah when she married - one should
be afraid - that she may really still have her Kesubah, and, after she has
claimed her Kesubah with Eidei Heinumah in one Beis-Din, she will produce
her Kesubah in another Beis-Din and claim it again.
(b) Rebbi Avahu considers this a proof that one writes a receipt (a fact
that is disputed in Bava Basra). Those who hold 'Ein Kosvin Shover' - argue
that it is an onus on the creditor to guard his Shover against mice (see
also Tosfos DH 'Kosvin') and it is the creditor who has the upper hand.
(c) Rav Papa initially establishes our Mishnah - in a place where the custom
is not to write a Kesubah.
(d) According to him, in most places, where the Minhag is to write a
Kesubah, the Din will be that she either produces her Sh'tar Kesubah to
claim the Kesubah, or she loses it altogether.
(a) The Beraisa deals with a case where the woman lost her Kesubah, hid it
or it got burnt. The continuation 'They danced in front of her, or joked in
front of her' - are proofs that when she married, she was a Besulah, since
those are things that they would do exclusively in front of a Besulah.
(b) The other two cases mentioned by the Beraisa, which prove that she was a
Besulah when she married are - that they passed the 'Kos shel Besorah'
(which will be explained later) in front of her, or the cloth with the
bloodstains on it.
(c) We ask the same Kashya that we asked on our Mishnah, and cite the same
Machlokes between Rebbi Avahu and Rav Papa. Rav Papa establishes the Beraisa
in a place where the Minhag was not to write a Kesubah. The Tana on the
other hand, who refers to a case where the Kesubah was lost - speaks when
the husband wrote a Kesubah of his own accord (see Tosfos DH 'Mai Ibdah',
what Rav Papa gains by learning this way).
(d) Despite the fact that, at the end of the day, he wrote her a Kesubah, we
deal with the question that we asked originally 'Let us suspect that she
will claim her Kesubah with the witnesses, and then produce her written
Kesubah and claim again - by interpreting 'Ibdah' to mean that the Kesubah
got burnt (in which case, she cannot possibly produce it).
(a) We just explained that 'Ibdah' means that the Kesubah got burnt. On
this, we ask three questions: 1. 'In that case, Ibdah is the same as
Nisrefah'; 2. What does the Tana then mean 'Hitminah Kesubasah'; 3.
Having taught us 'Nisrefah', why does it need to insert 'Ibdah' at all?
(b) So we establish the Beraisa to mean that whenever she claims that the
Kesubah got lost, it is as if she hid it in front of Beis-Din, and the only
way she will be believed is if she brings witnesses that her Kesubah got
(c) If Rav Papa established the *Beraisa* in a place where the Minhag is not
to write a Kesubah, then he will certainly do so in the case of our
*Mishnah*; but not vice-versa - because of the three Kashyos that we asked
earlier on. Consequently, whereas our Mishnah holds 'Ein Kosvin Shover', the
Beraisa will have to hold 'Kosvin Shover'.
(d) If the Minhag is not to give the woman a written Kesubah, she will
nevertheless be able to claim the Kesubah later - on the grounds that it is
a T'nai Beis-Din, and can therefore be claimed even without a document.
(a) Seeing as the woman may claim her Kesubah with the Eidei Heinumah - we
are indeed afraid that she will use witnesses to claim in one Beis-Din, and
then claim again in another Beis-Din using other witnesses. That is why we
conclude that even Rav Papa will agree here that, since there is no other
alternative, 'Kosvin Shover'.
(b) Rav Ada bar Ahavah interprets 'Kos shel Besorah' (one of the signs
mentioned in the Beraisa that she was a Besulah when she married a Kohen) as
a cup containing Terumah that they passed before her, as if to declare her
fit to eat Terumah, because she was a Besulah when she married the Kohen.
Rav Papa objects to this explanation - on the grounds that granted, a
Besulah who marries a Kohen is permitted to eat Terumah, but then, so is an
(c) So *he* interprets 'Kos shel Besorah' to be a mere symbol - declaring
that this will be her 'first' Bi'ah, just like Terumah is called 'first'.
(a) According to Rebbi Yehudah in a Beraisa, they would pass a cup of wine
in front of her. Rav Ada bar Ahavah explains that, in fact, they would pass
a cup in front of the Kalah, whether she was a Besulah or a Be'ulah - a full
cup for a Besulah, and an empty one for a Be'ulah.
(b) They did not simply pass the cup in front of a Besulah, but not in front
of a Be'ulah - because then, we are afraid that she will seize two hundred
Zuz, and claim that in reality, she was a Besulah when she married, but they
did not pass the cup in front of her because they were drunk. This argument
would not normally be strong enough to gain her two hundred Zuz. However,
now that she already has the money, and in addition, she has a 'Migu'
(because she could have said that she does not have it) - see Tosfos DH
'Isnusi' - she is believed.