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Kesuvos 68

KESUVOS 68 (3 Sivan) - dedicated l'Zecher Nishmas Rabbi Bennett Gold (Rav Dov ben Dovid Meir), by Shari and Jay Gold and family, on his Yahrzeit.


(a) R. Chanina: He is a swindler!
1. (R. Elazar): We should thank the swindlers - if not for them, we would be sinning each day - "He (a poor person to whom you did not give) will call about you to Hash-m, and you will bear sin".
(b) (R. Chiya Bar Rav mi'Difti): Anyone who hides his eyes from Tzedakah is as one that does idolatry.
1. It says (by one who will not give Tzedakah), "Lest there be a Bli'al (base) thought in your heart" - and it also says by idolatry, "Bli'al".
(c) (Beraisa): One who makes his eye appear blind, or his stomach swollen, or his thigh shriveled will experience this before he dies!
(d) One who takes Tzedakah and does not need it, will come to need it before he dies.
(e) (Mishnah): We do not force him to sell his house or the vessels he uses.
(f) Question: But a Beraisa teaches, 'If he used gold vessels, he will use silver; if he used silver vessels, he will use copper'!
(g) Answer #1 (Rav Zvid): Regarding a bed and table of gold or silver, he must sell it; regarding cups and bowls, he may keep them.
1. Objection: Why is he not forced to use cheaper cups and bowls - because they repulse him - the same is thus by a bed and table!
(h) Answer #2 (Rava Brei d'Rabah): A silver back-scratcher must be sold.
(i) Answer #3 (Rav Papa): When he wishes to collect gifts for the poor, he may keep his vessels; when a man improperly took such gifts and we demand repayment, he must sell his finer vessels.
(a) (Mishnah): An orphan girl married off willingly by her mother or brothers, and they wrote her a dowry of 50 or 100 Zuz - when she gets older, she may force them to give her what was fitting;
(b) R. Yehudah says, if the father married off 1 daughter, we give to the 2nd as he gave to the 1st;
(c) Chachamim say, sometimes a person is poor and becomes wealthy, or vice-versa; rather, we estimate the value of the possessions and give to her.
(d) (Gemara - Shmuel): For Parnasah (a dowry a girl takes from the estate of her deceased father), we estimate according to the father.
(e) Question (Beraisa): Daughters receive food and Parnasah from the property of their father.
1. We do not say, if the father was alive, he would give so much - rather, we appraise the property, and give accordingly.
2. Suggestion: Parnasah is the dowry she receives when she marries!
3. Rejection (Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchak): No, it means supporting her basic needs.
4. Suggestion: But it says, they receive food and Parnasah - is not one her own basic needs, and the other, the needs of marriage?!
5. Answer: No, both refer to her own needs - 'She is fed' refers to food and drink, 'Misparneses' refers to clothing and coverings.
(f) (Mishnah): Chachamim say, sometimes a person is poor and becomes wealthy, or vice-versa; rather, we estimate the value of the possessions and give to her.
1. Question: What is meant by 'poor' and 'wealthy'?
i. Suggestion: If it means poor or wealthy in property - would the 1st Tana say, if the father grew poor, we give the 2nd daughter as the 1st - the father lacks the property!
2. Answer: Rather, it means stingy or generous - and the Mishnah says, we estimate the property and give to her!
i. We see, we do not estimate the father's intention - this refutes Shmuel!
(g) (Defense): Shmuel is not refuted - he holds as R. Yehudah.
1. R. Yehudah says, if the father married off 1 daughter, we give to the 2nd as he gave to the 1st.
(h) Question: If so, Shmuel should have said, the law is as R. Yehudah!
(i) Answer: Had he said that, one would think that this only applies when the father married off a daughter in his life, that he revealed his opinion, how much he wants to give to his daughters; but if he never married off a daughter, no!
1. Rather, we see that R. Yehudah goes after estimation - whether or not he married off any daughters.
i. The Mishnah chose the case when he married off a daughter, to show how extreme is the opinion of Chachamim - even though he revealed his thinking, we do not go after estimation of his opinion.
(j) Rava (to Rav Chisda): They say in your name, the law is as R. Yehudah.
1. Rav Chisda: It should be Hash-m's will that all such nice teachings should be in my name!
(k) Question: Does Rava really agree that the law is as R. Yehudah?
1. (Beraisa - Rebbi): A daughter fed by the brothers receives 1/10th of the property (as Parnasah).
i. (Rava): The law is as Rebbi.
(l) Answer: Rava says that the law is as R. Yehudah when we know the man's nature; when we know nothing about him, the law is as Rebbi.
1. This is presumably correct - Rav Ada Bar Ahavah reported that Rebbi once gave 1/12th as Parnasah - but Rebbi said, 1/10th!
2. Rather, as we said - and Rebbi himself only said 1/10th when we do not know the man's nature.
(m) (Beraisa - Rebbi): A daughter fed by the brothers receives 1/10th of the property;
1. They asked Rebbi: If a man leaves 10 daughters and 1 son - will you say, the daughters get all the property?!
2. Rebbi: The 1st daughter receives 1/10; the next 1/10 of what she left over (i.e. 1/10 of 90%); the next, 1/10 of what the second left (81%) ... then, the girls split their money equally among themselves.

3. Question: Each daughter took for herself (she should keep what she took)!
4. Answer: Rebbi only said they share equally when they all come to get married at the same time.
5. This supports Rav Masneh.
i. (Rav Masneh): If they all come to get married at the same time, they receive 1 tenth.
ii. Question: This is unreasonable!
iii. Correction: Rather they receive a tenth as one (i.e. they share equally).
(n) (Beraisa - Rebbi): Whether the daughters became Bogeros before marrying, or married before becoming Bogeros, they stop being fed from the estate, but they do not forfeit Parnasah;
1. R. Shimon Ben Elazar says, they even lose Parnasah. What can they do? They hire husbands (i.e. they make it financially advantageous for men to marry them), and they receive their Parnasah.
2. (Rav Nachman): The law is as Rebbi.
3. Question (Rava - Mishnah): An orphan girl that was married off by her mother or brothers and consented - if they wrote her 50 or 100 Zuz, when she grows up, she can claim the rest of what was fitting for her to get.
i. This is because she was a minor - but an adult, no, because she pardoned her privilege (and presumably, the law is as our Stam Mishnah)!
4. Answer: When she protested, she does not lose her Parnasah (even an adult); when she didn't protest, an adult loses Parnasah.
i. Presumably, this is correct - if not, Rebbi contradicts himself!
ii. (Beraisa - Rebbi): A daughter fed by the brothers receives 1/10th of the property.
iii. Question: And if she is not fed, she does not receive?!
iv. Answer: Rather, if she did not protest when they stopped feeding her and did not give Parnasah, we say that she pardoned them; if she protested, she did not pardon them.
(a) (Ravina to Rava): Rav Ada Bar Ahavah said in your name, she need not protest when she turns Bogeres *or* is married, but must protest if she turns Bogeres *and* marries.
(b) Question: Did Rava really say this?
1. Rava asked Rav Nachman (above), and accepted his answer, that even a Na'arah that married forfeits Parnasah if she does not protest!
(c) Answer: When she is fed by the brothers, only a Bogeres that gets married must protest; if she is not fed by the brothers, even a Na'arah that gets married must protest.
(d) (Rav Huna, citing Rebbi): Parnasah is unlike privileges of the Kesuvah (that orphan girls are fed from the estate).
(e) Question: In what respect are they different?
1. Suggestion: Daughters may seize inherited property that the brothers sold to collect Parnasah, but not for food.
2. Rejection: Rav Huna does not need to teach this - all know this law, it comes up every day!
3. Suggestion #2: Parnasah may be collected from Metaltelim, but not food.
4. Rejection: According to Rebbi, food is also collected from Metaltelim!
i. (Beraisa - Rebbi): Both property which may be seized by creditors (i.e. land) and property which may not be seized by creditors (i.e. Metaltelim) is used to feed the widow and daughters.
(f) Answer: Rather, regarding the following, Parnasah is unlike a stipulation of the Kesuvah: one who says, 'My daughters should not be fed from my estate' - they are fed anyway; but if he says, 'They should not receive Parnasah', they do not.
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