POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Kesuvos 36
KESUVOS 36 - This Daf has been sponsored by Gedalliah Jawitz of Wantagh,
1) GIRLS THAT DO NOT RECEIVE A FINE
(a) Suggestion #1: If incestuous relations is taken
literally, and secondary incestuous relations are
Rabbinically prohibited relations - since the latter are
permitted by Torah law, why is there no fine for them?
2) GIRLS AGAINST WHICH THERE IS NO CLAIM OF NON-VIRGINITY
(b) Suggestion #2 (Version 1): Rather, incestuous relations
are Chaivei Misos those punishable by death; secondary
incestuous relations are those punishable by Kares - but
those punishable by a Lav, there is a fine, as Shimon
(c) Suggestion #2 (Version 2): Rather, incestuous relations
are those punishable by death or Kares; secondary
incestuous relations are those punishable by a Lav, as R.
Shimon Ben Menasya.
(d) (Beraisa): A girl that does Mi'un does not receive a
1. We infer, a regular minor does receive a fine!
(e) Question: The end of the Beraisa says that there is no
fine for an Ailonis.
2. This is as Chachamim, who say that there is a fine
for a minor.
1. This is as R. Meir, who says that only a Na'arah
collects a fine - since an Ailonis goes from being a
minor to a Bogeres, she gets no fine.
(f) Suggestion #1: The whole Mishnah is as R. Meir; he holds
as R. Yehudah regarding Mi'un.
2. Chachamim authored the earlier part of the Beraisa,
and R. Meir the end?!
1. Rejection: This is not so!
(g) Suggestion #2: The whole Mishnah is as R. Yehudah; he
holds as R. Meir regarding a minor.
2. (Beraisa): Until when can a girl do Mi'un? R. Meir
says, until she brings 2 hairs (becomes a Na'arah);
R. Yehudah says, until there is more black than
1. Rejection: This is not so!
(h) Answer #1: The Tana of the Beraisa holds as R. Meir
regarding a minor, and as R. Yehudah regarding Mi'un.
2. (Rav Yehudah): The Mishnah is as R. Meir.
i. If R. Yehudah agreed, Rav Yehudah would have
said, the Mishnah is as R. Meir and R. Yehudah.
(i) Answer #2 (Rafram): When the Beraisa says, a girl that
does Mi'un, it means a girl that could do Mi'un, i.e. a
(j) Question: If so, let the Beraisa simply say, a minor!
1. This difficulty is unresolved.
(k) (Beraisa): An Ailonis does not receive a fine.
(l) Contradiction (Beraisa): A deaf or insane girl or an
Ailonis receives a fine.
(m) Objection: This is easily answered - R. Meir says an
Ailonis receives no fine (since she is never a Na'arah);
Chachamim say she receives a fine when she is a minor!
1. Question: The one who asked the question, what did
(n) Contradiction (Beraisa): There is no claim for finding
one of the following not to be a virgin: a deaf or insane
girl; a Bogeres; a Mukas Etz.
2. Answer: He merely cited this Beraisa so he could ask
the following contradiction on it.
1. Such a claim may be made against a blind girl or an
Ailonis; R. Meir says, there is no claim against a
(o) Answer (Rav Sheshes): R. Gamliel says that an Ailonis
receives a fine; R. Yehoshua says that there is no claim
of virginity against her.
1. Objection: We only know that R. Gamliel believes her
when she makes a claim - would he believe her even
when she makes no claim?
2. Answer: Yes! Since her claim would be believed, in
such a case we suggest this to her.
(a) (Beraisa): There is no claim of non-virginity against a
(b) Question: But Rav said, a Bogeres may have relations the
entire first night (and any blood is attributed to
(c) Answer: If no blood is found, he has a claim of
non-virginity; the Beraisa teaches that if he says the
opening was open, this is not a claim.
3) THE STATUS OF A REDEEMED CAPTIVE
(d) (Beraisa): Sumchus says, there is no claim of
non-virginity against a blind girl.
(e) (R. Zeira): This is because she falls on the ground.
(f) Question: But all girls fall!
(g) Answer: Most girls, if the see blood after falling will
tell their mothers; a blind girl will not.
(h) (Beraisa): One who leaves her husband because of ill
repute does not receive a fine.
(i) Question: Such a girl is stoned for adultery!
(j) Answer (Rav Sheshes): A girl of ill repute in her youth
does not subsequently receive a fine.
(k) (Rav Papa): We learn from this, we do not collect with a
(l) Question: What is the case?
1. Suggestion #1: If there is a rumor that it was
forged - correspondingly, there was a rumor that she
had extra-marital relations.
i. Objection: But Rava taught, we are not
concerned for such rumors!
2. Suggestion #2: 2 men came and said that she asked
them to have relations with her; correspondingly, 2
men said that the bearer of the document asked them
to forge it for him.
3. Objection: The comparison is faulty - there are many
that would agree to relations, but do we suspect
Jews of forgery?
4. Answer: Since he was trying to forge it, we are
concerned that he forged it himself.
(a) (Mishnah): These girls do not receive a fine:
1. A convert/captive/slave that converted/was
redeemed/was freed above the age of 3 years; R.
Yehudah says, a redeemed captive retains her
sanctity (is assumed to still be a virgin), even if
she is older;
(b) Anyone liable to die does not pay money - "If there is no
fatality, he will be punished monetarily".
2. One who has relations with his daughter,
granddaughter, wife's daughter, or wife's
granddaughter does not pay a fine, since he is
liable to die;
(c) (Gemara - R. Yochanan): R. Yehudah and R. Dosa said the
1. R. Yehudah's law is in our Mishnah.
(d) Objection (Rabah): Perhaps they argue on each other!
2. (Beraisa - R. Dosa): A woman that was taken captive
may eat Trumah.
i. Because this captor pushed her around, she
should be disqualified from Kehunah?!
1. R. Yehudah only said here that she retains her
sanctity, so one who rapes or entices her will not
profit - but he could hold as Chachamim of R. Dosa
that disqualify her from Kehunah!
(e) Question (Abaye): Is the reason of R. Yehudah so that a
sinner should not profit?
2. R. Dosa only permitted her to eat Rabbinic Trumah -
but regarding the fine of the Torah, he could hold
that she does not collect it!
1. (Beraisa - R. Yehudah): A captured girl retains her
sanctity; even if she was 10 years old, her Kesuvah
(f) Answer: The reason is, so people should not refrain from
2. We cannot say the reason is so a sinner should not
(g) Question: Does R. Yehudah really hold that she retains
1. (Beraisa): (A Kohen) who redeems a captive may marry
her; if he testifies that she was not defiled, he
may not marry her; R. Yehudah says, in either case
he may not marry her.
(h) Answer #1 (Rav Papa): Correct the Beraisa to say, R.
Yehudah says, in either case he may marry her.
2. Question: This is illogical - if he can marry her
when he redeems her, now that he testifies to her
purity, he cannot?!
3. Answer: When he redeems *and* testifies about her,
he may marry her; if he only testifies about her,
i. Still, the opinion of R. Yehudah contradicts
his opinion in our Mishnah.
(i) Answer #2 (Rav Huna Brei d'Rav Yehoshua): Do not change
the text. R. Yehudah addresses Chachamim according to
1. R. Yehudah: I hold, in either case he may marry her;
you should hold, in either case he may not marry
(j) If he only testifies about her, we suspect he merely
2. Chachamim hold, a man would not waste his money - he
would not redeem her unless he is sure she is pure.