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Kesuvos 27

KESUVOS 26 & 27 (6th and 7th days of Pesach) - have been generously dedicated by Dick and Beverly Horowitz of Los Angeles. May they be blessed with a life of joy and much Nachas from their very special children and grandchildren.


(a) Rejection: No, even if she was taken for ransom, the same would apply; the case happened to be, she was taken as collateral.
(b) Version #2 - (Rava): We learn Rav Shmuel's law (above) from the Mishnah.
(c) (Mishnah): R. Yosi haKohen and R. Zecharya Ben haKatzav testified about a girl that was taken as collateral for a loan in Ashkelon. Her family distanced themselves from her, even though witnesses say that she was never in seclusion;
(d) Chachamim: If you believe the witnesses that she was taken as collateral, believe them that she was not secluded; if you do not believe them that she was not secluded do not believe them that she was taken as collateral!
1. She was taken for money; without witnesses, she would be prohibited!
2. Suggestion: We do not distinguish being taken as collateral and being taken for ransom.
3. Rejection: No, we distinguish; being taken as collateral is more stringent.
(e) Version #3 - question: Our Mishnah says, if she is taken for monetary reasons, she is permitted;
(f) Contradiction (Mishnah): R. Yosi ... .
1. Even though she was taken for money, if not for the witnesses, she would have been forbidden!
(g) Answer (Rav Shmuel Bar Nachmani): When Yisrael are in control she is permitted; when Nachrim are in control, even when abducted for money, she is prohibited.
(h) (Mishnah): If she was taken for a capital offense ...
(i) Opinion #1 (Rav): An example is, the wife of a thief.
(j) Opinion #2 (Levi): An example is, the wife of Ben Dunai (a murderer).
(k) Opinion #1 (Chizkiyah): This only applies when there was a verdict for death.
(l) Opinion #2 (R. Yochanan): Even if there was no verdict.
(a) (Mishnah): All wives of Kohanim in a besieged city are prohibited to their husbands; if they have witnesses, even a male or female slave, they are believed; a person is not believed about himself.
(b) (Gemara - Contradiction - Beraisa): An army enters a city. If it is peacetime, open barrels of wine are forbidden, closed barrels are permitted; in wartime, both are permitted, because there is not time to use it for idolatrous rites.
(c) Answer #1 (Rav Mari): There is time to rape women, but not to serve idolatry.
(d) Answer #2 (R. Yitzchak Bar Elazar): We distinguish the army of the country from an invading army. (Rashi: the home army does no damage; an invading army damages; Tosfos: the home army has time, an invading army has no time.)
(e) Question: Even by an invading army, certainly one slipped away! (Rashi: and raped a woman, why are they permitted? Tosfos: a woman escaped, why are they prohibited?)
(f) Answer (Rav Yehudah): There are guards that see everyone.
(g) Question: Certainly, guards sometimes doze!
(h) Answer (R. Levi): The city is surrounded by chains, dogs, sticks, thorns and geese (so anyone leaving would be detected).
(i) (R. Aba Bar Zavda): R. Yehudah Nesi'ah and Chachamim argued as R. Yitzchak and R. Levi. One distinguished between the host army and an invading army; the other said that the city is surrounded by chains, etc.
(a) (Rav Idi Bar Avin): If there is a hiding place in the city, all wives of Kohanim will be permitted.
(b) Question (R. Yirmiyah): Do we say this even if it can only hold one woman?
1. Do we say by each woman, she hid there - or not?
(c) Suggestion: The law should be as the case of 2 paths.
1. (Mishnah): There are 2 paths; one is pure, one is impure. Reuven walked on one path and touched pure objects; Shimon walked on the 2nd path and touched pure objects;
2. R. Yehudah: If they ask at different times, we tell each that what he touched is pure; if they ask together, we tell them that what they touched is impure;
3. R. Yosi says, either way what they touched is impure.
4. (Rava): R. Yehudah: If they ask at the same time, all agree we tell them 'impure'; if they ask at different times, all agree that what they touched is pure; they only argue when one comes to ask for himself and his friend.
i. R. Yehudah compares this to asking at different times; R. Yosi compares this to asking at the same time.
(d) Here, too we are deciding the law of all the women together!
(e) Rejection: The comparison is no good. There, one path is certainly impure; here, perhaps all women are still pure!
(f) Question (Rav Ashi): If she says that she did not hide there, but was not defiled, is she believed?

1. Do we say, she is believed - why should she lie, she could have claimed that she hid there!
2. Or, do we not say this?
(g) Suggestion: The law should be the same as the case of Reuven who rented his donkey to Shimon, with instructions not to lead it near the river, since it is wet. Shimon led it by the river, and it died.
1. Shimon: I led it by the river, but it was dry!
2. Rabah: He is believed - why should he lie, he could have said that he didn't lead it by the river!
3. Abaye: We do not apply such reasoning to contradict witnesses (and we can testify that it is wet by the river).
(h) Rejection: The comparison is no good. There, witnesses know that it is wet by the river. Here, we have no witnesses that she was defiled - it is merely a suspicion!
1. We do apply the logic 'why should she lie?' to overcome a suspicion.
(a) (Mishnah): Even a male or female slave is believed.
(b) This connotes, even her maidservant is believed.
(c) Contradiction (Mishnah): A dying man divorced his wife on condition that he dies. They may not be in isolation together, unless a person is with them, even a slave, except for her maidservant, because she is uninhibited in front of her maidservant.
(d) Answer #1 (Rav Papi): We are more lenient regarding a captured woman.
(e) Answer #2 (Rav Papa): Her maidservant is not believed; her husband's is.
1. Question: Is her maidservant not really believed?
i. (Mishnah): A person is not believed about himself - we infer, her maidservant is believed!
2. Answer: Her maidservant is like herself.
(f) Answer #3 (Rav Ashi): Both cases talk about her maidservant. Even if she sees something, she is silent.
1. By the divorce, we are lenient if we hear nothing, so she cannot be the one to guard them. By the captive, if she is silent, the woman is prohibited, so the slave is believed.
(g) Question: Here, too we should be concerned that her maidservant will lie!
(h) Answer: Keeping silent is 1 sin; she would not do a 2nd sin, to testify falsely.
1. We see this principle by the case of Mari Bar Isak. His brother came after being away for a long time, and asked for half the inheritance of their father.
2. Mari: I don't recognize you.
3. Rav Chisda: This is a valid claim - Yosef's brothers did not recognize him, because he left them before he had a full beard! Bring witnesses to testify that you are Mari's brother.
4. The brother: I have witnesses, but they are afraid to testify, because Mari is a powerful man.
5. Rav Chisda: Mari, get the witnesses to testify that he is not your brother.
6. Mari: Is this the law - he who wants to take money from its owner must bring proof!
7. Rav Chisda: I rule thusly to you and your fellow strong-arms.
8. Question: We should be concerned, the witnesses will lie for Mari!
9. Answer: They would not do a 2nd sin, to testify falsely.
(i) Suggestion: The Tana'im argue if her maidservant can testify about her.
(j) (Beraisa #1): Testimony that a captive was undefiled may be given by a man, woman, boy, girl, her father, mother, brother and sister, but not her son, daughter, slave or maidservant;
(k) (Beraisa #2): All are believed to testify about her, except herself and her husband.
1. Rav Papi and Rav Ashi must say the Tana'im argue (Beraisa #1 contradicts them).
2. Question: Must Rav Papa also say that they argue?
3. Answer: No - the 2nd Beraisa can be a case when they speak naively.
i. (Rav Dimi): A boy came in front of R. Yehoshua Ben Levi talking about when he and his mother were captured.
ii. 'When I went to draw water ... to gather wood, my mind was (always) on my mother. Based on this testimony, Rebbi allowed her to marry a Kohen.
(a) (Mishnah): R. Zecharyah Ben haKatzav: I swear, my wife didn't leave my side from the time the invaders entered Yerushalayim until they left!
(b) Chachamim: A man cannot testify for himself.
(c) (Gemara - Beraisa): Still, he designated a house for her in his courtyard. When she would leave, she would leave before her children; she would enter after her children (to never be alone with him).
(d) Question (Abaye): Is this set-up acceptable for a divorced woman?
1. Perhaps we are only lenient by a captive - or perhaps, there is no difference.
(e) Answer (Beraisa): One who divorces his wife, she may not get married in his neighborhood.
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