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prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Gitin 87


(a) Rebbi Yochanan explains 'Chamishah she'Kasvu K'lal' in our Mishnah to mean that one date covered all five Sh'taros, and 'Tofeis le'Chol Echad ve'Echad', that each Get was dated independently. According to Resh Lakish, even the former case is considered Tofeis.
Then how does he explain 'Klal'?

(b) What does the Beraisa say about witnesses who signed after a greeting on the Get?

(c) To answer Rebbi Aba's Kashya why we are not worried that, according to our Mishnah too, maybe the witnesses signed only on the last of the five Gitin, we cite Rebbi Avahu quoting Rebbi Yochanan himself.
What did Rebbi Avahu say (to validate the signatures of witnesses who signed after a greeting)?

(d) How does this resolve our problem?

(a) Mar Keshisha Rav Chisda's son, asked Rav Ashi why it is that, if each Get is dated independently, why are the first four Gitin not Pasul anyway, because they were signed at a later date than they were written.
What did Rav Ashi reply?

(b) What do we learn from the Pasuk "ve'Kasav *Lah*"?

(c) Ravina asked Rav Ashi ...

1. ... why it is that, according to Resh Lakish, who requires each couple to be mentioned independently, all five Gitin should not be Pasul even in the case of K'lal, because of "Lah" 've'Lo Lah u'le'Chaverta'.
What did Rav Ashi reply?
2. ... how, in light of the P'sul of "Lah" 've'Lo Lah u'le'Chaverta', we justify the Beraisa 'ha'Kosev Nechasav li'Sh'nei Avadav, Kanu u'Meshachrerin Zeh es Zeh' (in spite of the Gezeirah-Shavah' "Lah" "Lah" from Ishah).
What did Rav Ashi reply?
(a) In the Machlokes between Rebbi Yochanan and Resh Lakish, which of the two has the support of a Beraisa?

(b) In the Beraisa that supports Rebbi Yochanan, Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira disagrees with the Tana Kama.
How does he qualify the case where each Get has its own date?

(c) In the Beraisa that supports Resh Lakish ...

  1. ... the Tana Kama holds like Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira.
    Who is the Tana Kama's disputant?
  2. ... why does the Tana need to explain that he wrote the date on each of the five Gitin, seeing as Resh Lakish invalidates five Gitin in one Sh'tar even if there is only one date?
(a) What is the difference between the way an Ivri (Jews living elsewhere) signs his name on the Get and the way a Greek Jew signs it?

(b) If, in a case where two documents are written side by side on one piece of parchment, two Ivrim sign across the page, and underneath them, two Greek Jews sign, which of the Sh'taros does our Mishnah validate?

(c) If an Ivri signs first, then a Greek, then an Ivri and then a Greek, the Tana declares both Sh'taros invalid.
How exactly, did the two Greeks sign?

(a) If someone signs his name as 'ben P'loni', is his signature valid?

(b) In that case why, in the latter case in our Mishnah, do we not consider the top signature as two (i.e. 'Re'uven' on the right, and 'ben Ya'akov' on the left, to combine with the signatures beneath them)?

(a) On what grounds is a Sh'tar Kasher if one of the signatories signed 'Re'uven ben'?

(b) Then why in the Reisha of our Mishnah, is only the one Sh'tar Kasher, and not both, by considering 'Reuven ben' as a witness on the right-hand Sh'tar, and 'Ya'akov Eid', as a witness on the left-hand one (and likewise in the case of the second witness)?

(c) Why might the Sh'tar be Pasul even if he did sign 'Ya'akov Eid'?

(d) How do we know that it was not Reuven who signed on the left-hand Sh'tar too, but using his father's name?

Answers to questions



(a) Rav used to sign his name with the symbol of a fish, Rebbi Chanina with that of a branch of a date-palm.
What symbol was used by ...
  1. ... Rav Chisda?
  2. ... Rav Hoshaya?
(b) Rabah bar Rav Huna did not use a letter like the previous two Amora'im, but a symbol like the first two.
Which symbol?

(c) Then how do we know that Reuven in the Seifa of our Mishnah, did not use his father's name 'Ya'akov' as a symbol?

(a) We prove that the reason in the Seifa of our Mishnah (that not both of the Gitin are Kasher - the right-hand one, by means of the Ivri witnesses, the left-hand one, by means of the Greek ones) cannot be because of the space between the left-hand Sh'tar and the Greek witnesses, because of a statement by Chizkiyah.
What did Chizkiyah say about a Sh'tar whose space one filled with witnesses who are relatives? What does this prove?

(b) How does Ze'iri therefore amend our Mishnah 'Sheneihem Pesulim'?

(c) We nevertheless reconcile our Mishnah with Chizkiyah by suggesting that perhaps they signed 'Gundelis'.
What does this mean?

(a) Is a Sh'tar that is signed by an Ivri and a Greek Jew Kasher (despite their different methods of signing)?

(b) Ze'iri cites a Beraisa which reconciles our Mishnah (which rules 'Sheneihem Pesulim') with this ruling.
What does the Beraisa say?

(c) Our Tana however, specifically rules that the second Get is Pasul. Why is that?

(d) On what grounds do we refute the contention that the Seifa of our Mishnah speaks when all four witnesses signed across the line?

(a) Our Mishnah validates a Get which is written in two columns (which is dated at the beginning of the first column and signed at the end of the second).
Why are we not afraid ...
1. ... that the two columns may have actually contained two Gitin that were not originally written on the same level (i.e. the first Get was written higher up than the second), and that he cut off the signatures from the foot of the first Get and the date from the top of the second one?
2. ... that he changed his mind about the text of the Get and scrapped the first column, to begin afresh with a new date on the second, which he then cut off to make it appear like one Get?
3. ... that after beginning the Get on the first column, he changed his mind about divorcing his wife, and then reconsidered and continued with the Get on the second column?
(b) What two reasons might there be for invalidating the Get in the previous 'Havah Amina' (the contention that he changed his mind about giving a Get after the first column)?

(c) Rav Ashi offers one answer for all three Kashyos.
What technical reason does he offer to eliminate all three problems in one sweep?

(a) Will a regular Get (to preclude a Get Mekushar where the witnesses had to sign on the back) be Kasher if the witnesses signed on top of the page, at the side or at the back?

(b) What does the Tana of our Mishnah say about two Gitin that are written one above the other, but one facing upwards and the other downwards, where the witnesses signed on the space in between ...

  1. ... if the two beginnings are facing each other?
  2. ... if the two ends are facing each other?
(a) What does the Tana of our Mishnah rule if ...
  1. ... the Get is written in Ivris and the witnesses signed in Greek?
  2. ... the Sofer wrote it and one witness signed it?
(b) Is a Get Kasher if the witnesses signed ...
  1. ... 'Ish P'loni Eid' (omitting his father's name, which is generally inserted)?
  2. ... 'ben Ish P'loni Eid'?
  3. ... 'Ish P'loni ben Ish P'loni'?
(c) How did the Neki'ei ha'Da'as in Yerushalayim used to sign on documents?
What does 'Neki'ei ha'Da'as' mean?

(d) What does the Tana say about writing just the family nickname (presumably incorporating the modern surname) of the man and woman, together with their main name?

Answers to questions

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