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Gitin 85

GITIN 83-85 - Dedicated by an admirer of the work of the Dafyomi Advancement Forum, l'Iluy Nishmas Mrs. Gisela Turkel, Golda bas Reb Chaim Yitzchak Ozer, A"H.


(a) We just quoted the Beraisa where Rebbi invalidates a Get that contains any conditions in writing (even 'al-M'nas'), whereas the Rabbanan say that whatever invalidates the Get orally will also invalidate it in writing, and whatever does not invalidate the former, will not invalidate the latter either. According to Rebbi Zeira, they argue in a case where it is inserted before the Toref.
What is the basis of their Machlokes?

(b) What will they hold in the event that it is inserted after the Toref?

(c) Who might then be the author of our Mishnah, which we established by 'Chutz', and which validates 'al-T'nai'?

(a) Rava disagrees with Rebbi Zeira, establishing the Machlokes between Rebbi and the Chachamim by after the Toref.
What is the Machlokes, according to him?

(b) What will they then hold in the event that the T'nai was written before the Toref?

(c) Who will then be the author of our Mishnah, which we established by 'Chutz', and which validates 'al-T'nai'?

(a) Rebbi Avin's father quoted a Beraisa before Rebbi Zeira 'Kasav Get al-T'nai, Divrei ha'Kol Pasul'. In view of the fact that, as we just learned, Rebbi and the Rabbanan argue over this point, how does Rebbi Zeira amend the Beraisa to read? How does he establish it?

(b) Why did Rebbi Zeira prefer to establish the Beraisa like this, rather than to simply establish to amend 'Divrei ha'Kol Pasul' to 'Harei Zeh Pasul', and establish it before the Toref like Rebbi?

(a) What does the Tana of our Mishnah say about someone who says to his wife 'Harei At ...
  1. ... Ela le'Aba u'le'Avicha, le'Achi u'le'Achicha, le'Eved u'le'Oved-Kochavim'? What do they all have in common?
  2. ... Ela Almanah le'Kohen Gadol, Gerushah va'Chalutzah le'Kohen Hedyot, Mamzeres u'Nesinah le'Yisrael'? What do they all have in common?
(b) The Tana concludes the Reisha with the words 'u'le'Chol Mi she'Ein Lo Alav Kidushin' and the Seifa 've'Chol Mi she'Yesh Lo Alav Kidushin Afilu ba'Aveirah, Pasul'.
What do we include from the K'lal of the ...
  1. ... the Reisha?
  2. ... the Seifa?
(a) Rava asked Rav Nachman whether 'Chutz mi'Kidushei Katan' is considered a Shier (seeing as the Kidushin of a Katan is not effective.
What is then the side to say that it should be effective?

(b) Rav Nachman resolves Rava's She'eilah from the Mishnah in Kesuvos. What Chidush does the Tana teach there with regard to a Ketanah becoming divorced after her father's death? Based on the principle "ve'Yatz'ah ve'Haysah", why would we have thought otherwise?

(c) What does this prove? How does Rav Nachman now resolve Rava's She'eilah from there?

(d) We ask a similar She'eilah first with regard to someone who says ' ... Chutz min ha'Noladin' (who will eventually be born) and then with regard to 'Chutz mi'Ba'al Achosah' (whose wife stands to die).
Why can we not use our Mishnah, which does not consider Eved and Oved-Kochavim as a Shier, despite the fact that they are potential converts, to resolve the She'eilah by ...

  1. ... 'Chutz min ha'Noladin'?
  2. ... 'Chutz mi'Ba'al Achosah'?
(a) Rava subsequently asked Rav Nachman whether 'Chutz mi'Z'nusech' is considered a Shier, since he retained jurisdiction over her with regard to Bi'ah.
On what grounds then, might it not be considered a Shier?

(b) How did Rav Nachman try to resolve this She'eilah from 'le'Aba u'le'Avich' in our Mishnah, which is not considered a Shier? How do we know that the Tana is speaking about Z'nus and not marriage?

(c) How did Rava refute this proof?

(d) He then asked him whether 'Chutz mi'she'Lo ke'Darkah' or 'Chutz me'Hafaras Nedarehah' is considered a Shier or not.
Why should ...

  1. ... 'Chutz mi'she'Lo ke'Darkah' be considered a Shier, considering that it is not part of the regular Ishus (to have children)?
  2. ... 'Chutz me'Hafaras Nedarehah' be considered a Shier, seeing as it is not part of the principle Ishus (Bi'ah)?
(a) He also asked from 'Chutz mi'Terumasech' and 'Chutz mi'Yerushasech'. What did he mean by ...
  1. ... 'Chutz mi'Terumasech'?
  2. ... 'Chutz mi'Yerushasech'?
(b) Why should ...
  1. ... 'Chutz mi'Terumasech' be considered a Shiur?
  2. ... 'Chutz mi'Yerushasech' be considered a Shiur?
(c) Finally, Rava asked Rav Nachman about 'Chutz mi'Kidushech bi'Sh'tar', which might not be considered a Shier, since he has left her the possibility of becoming betrothed through Kesef or Bi'ah.
Why on the other hand, might it still be considered a Shier?

(d) What is the outcome of all these She'eilos (with the exception of the first one which Rav Nachman resolved)?

Answers to questions



(a) What is the basic wording on the Get?

(b) Rebbi Yehudah adds 've'Dein de'Yehavi Lichi Mina'i Sefer Tiruchin, ve'Igeres Shevukin'.
Which third item does he add?

(c) Rebbi Yehudah's version of the Get concludes 'li'Mehach le'Hisnasva le'Chol Gever de'Yisyatzvan'.
What does this mean?

(d) The basis of the Machlokes between Rebbi Yehudah and the Rabbanan is whether 'Yadayim she'Ein Mochichos (an unclear indication [that he is divorcing her with this Get]) Havyan Yadayim' or not. The Rabbanan hold 'Havyan Yadayim'.
What is Rebbi Yehudah's reason? What might people otherwise think?

9) The basic wording on a Get Shichrur is 'Harei At bas Chorin'.
What alternative does our Mishnah present?


(a) Why is the Get invalid if one wrote ...
  1. ... 'Harei At bas Chorin'?
  2. ... (on a Get Shichrur) 'Harei At Muteres le'Chol Adam'?
(b) Why was Rav Ashi not sure whether 'Harei At le'Atzmech' is a Lashon of divorce or not.
What else might it mean?

(c) How did Ravina resolve this She'eilah from our Mishnah, which considers this a Lashon of acquiring herself with regard to a Shifchah?

(a) We learned in Perek ha'Shole'ach that if someone sells his slave to a Nochri, he is obligated to redeem him, even if it costs him ten time his value.
What must he do after redeeming him?

(b) Raban Shimon ben Gamliel adds that if he wrote a Sh'tar 'Ono' when he sold him, then the Get Shichrur is unnecessary.
What is a Sh'tar 'Ono'?

(c) What did Rav Chanin me'Chuzna'a prove from here?

(a) Why does Abaye insist that in the Get, one does not write ...
  1. ... 've'Dein' (with a Yud)?
  2. ... 'Igeres' (with a Yud after the 'Alef')?
  3. ... 'li'Mehach (with a Yud after the 'Lamed')?
  4. ... 'li'Mechach'?
(b) What do the following have in common ...1
  1. ... 'di'Sehavyan' and 'de'Sisyatzvan'?
  2. ... 'Sefer *Tiruchin*' and 'Igeres *Shevukin*'?
(c) And why must the Sofer be careful ...
  1. ... to prolong the second 'Vav' of *'ve'Kadu* Patris'?
  2. ... not to write 'le'Isnasva' but 'le'Hisnasva'?
(a) Rava instituted that one writes in every Get ' ... Eich P'lanya bar P'lanya Patar ... '.
Why can we not prove from the fact that Rava omitted 've'Dein ... ' that we rule like the Rabbanan and not Rebbi Yehudah?

(b) Why did Rava insert the Lashon ...

  1. ... 'mi'Yoma D'nan'?
  2. ... 'u'Le'olam'?
Answers to questions

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