POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Gitin 88
GITIN 88 (13 Iyar) - has been dedicated by Zvi and Tamara Sand of
Har Nof, Yerushalayim, in honor of the Yahrzeit of Zvi's
grandfather, Meir ben Reb Benzion Sand.
1) NON-STANDARD SIGNATURES
(a) (Mishnah): If the witnesses signed at the top (or side,
it is invalid).
2) WHAT IS CONSIDERED GETTING OLD
(b) Question: But Rav would sign at the side!
(c) Answer #1: The top of Rav's signature would face the Get;
in the Mishnah, the top faces away from the Get.
1. Question (Mishnah): Two Gitin are written on 1 page,
the witnesses signed in between: if each Get begins
by the signatures (and goes outwards) - both are
(d) Answer #2: Rather, Rav would sign his name at the side on
letters to summon parties to Beis Din.
i. We should say, whichever Get is above the top
of the signatures is valid!
2. Answer: The case is, the signatures are sideways,
their top faces the side of the page.
3. Question: But the Mishnah continues - if 1 of the
Gitin ends by the signatures - it is Kosher, the
other is invalid;
i. If the signatures are sideways, they are not
read with either Get!
(e) (Mishnah): Kesav Sofer (the Get is in a scribe's
handwriting) and 1 witness signed - it is Kosher.
(f) (R. Yirmeyah): The text of the Mishnah is Chasam Sofer
(the scribe signed it) and also another witness - it is
1. (Rav Chisda): The Mishnah is as R. Yosi (who says
that an agent cannot appoint other agents; the
Chachamim that argue would disqualify Chasam Sofer,
lest the husband asked agents to ask other witnesses
to sign, and they asked the scribe to avoid hurting
(g) A Kesuvah came before R. Avahu. Witnesses recognized the
handwriting of the document and 1 of the witnesses; R.
Avahu was about to validate the document based on this.
(h) R. Yirmeyah: The text of the Mishnah is Chasam Sofer (but
Kesav Sofer and 1 witness is insufficient).
(a) (Mishnah): If family names of the husband and wife were
used, it is Kosher.
(b) (Beraisa): A family name may be used in a Get, until 10
generations; R. Shimon ben Elazar says, only 3
(c) (R. Chanina ): A family name may be used in a Get until 3
1. R. Chanina holds as R. Shimon ben Elazar
(d) (Rav Huna): R. Shimon ben Elazar learns from "When you
will bear children and grandchildren, and grow old in the
(e) (R. Yehoshua ben Levi): Eretz Yisrael was only made
desolate (the 10 tribes were exiled) after 7 families of
kings (of the 10 tribes) served idolatry - Yerov'am...and
Hoshe'a ben Elah - "The downtrodden that bore 7..."
(f) (R. Ami): R. Shimon ben Elazar learns from "When you will
bear children and grandchildren and grow old."
(g) Question (Rav Kahana and Rav Asi): "(Hoshe'a ben Elah)
was wicked, but not as bad as the kings of Yisrael that
preceded him" - if so, why "Shalmaneser will come upon
(h) Answer (Rav): Yerov'am had set up guards to prevent
Yisrael from alighting to Yerushalayim on the festivals;
Hoshe'a abolished the guards, but Yisrael still did not
1. Hash-m decreed that Yisrael would be exiled
corresponding to the years they did not alight.
(i) Question (Rav Chisda): "Hash-m was diligent to bring the
evil upon us, for He is a Tzadik" - how is this a reason?
(j) Answer #1 (Rav Chisda): Hash-m did Tzedakah (a great
benefit) for us by exiling (most of Yisrael with)
Tzidkiyahu after those exiled with Yechanyah were
established (to teach them).
1. "1000 Cheresh and Masger" - this refers to the
(k) Answer #2 (Ula): Hash-m benefited us by not allowing us
to stay in the land for 852 years (the numerical value of
"You will grow old"), rather exiling us 2 years before
this, so we would not be subject to the accompanying
curse "You will perish".
3) A COERCED GET
1. (Rav Acha bar Yakov): We may derive that 852 years
is considered 'quickly' by Hash-m ("You will
(a) (Mishnah): If (a Beis Din of) Yisraelim forced a man to
divorce his wife, it is valid; if Nochrim forced him, it
4) TALK OF ENGAGEMENT
1. The case is, the Nochrim beat the husband, telling
him to do as Chachmei Yisrael say.
(b) (Gemara - Rav Nachman): A Get coerced legally (i.e. in a
situation where he must divorce his wife) by Yisraelim is
valid; if it was illegally coerced, it is invalid.
1. If it was coerced legally by Nochrim, it is invalid;
if it was given, it disqualifies her from Kehunah;
(c) Rav Yosef was forcing a man to give a Get.
2. If it was coerced illegally by Nochrim, it is
invalid; if it was given, she is not disqualified
3. Question: If Nochrim have the power to force us to
divorce - a legally coerced Get should be valid; if
they have no such power, it should not disqualify
her from Kehunah!
4. Answer #1 (Rav Mesharshiya): mid'Oraisa, a Get
legally coerced by Nochrim is valid; Chachamim
decreed that it is invalid, so women that want to
get divorced will not get Nochrim to coerce their
5. Objection: If so, then when the Get was coerced
illegally, why doesn't it disqualify her from
Kehunah - it should have the same law as a Get
coerced illegally by Yisraelim!
i. Rav Mesharshiya's answer is wrong.
6. Answer #2: mid'Oraisa, a Get legally coerced by
Nochrim is invalid; Chachamim decreed that it
disqualifies from Kehunah, for it may be confused
with a legally coerced Get in Yisrael.
i. A Get illegally coerced by Nochrim will not be
confused with a Get legally coerced in Yisrael,
so there is no need to decree.
(d) Answer (Abaye): But we (sages of Bavel) have the law of
commoners - we cannot coerce to divorce!
1. (Beraisa - R. Meir): "These are the judgments you
will put before them" - one may not go for judgment
in front of Nochrim, even if their law (in the case)
is the same as Torah law;
2. Also - "Before them", and not before commoners.
3. Answer (Rabah): We are agents (to coerce Gitin) on
behalf of the expert judges in Eretz Yisrael, just
as we are their agents to judge cases of admissions
(of debt) and loans.
4. Question: If so, we should also be agents to judge
thefts and injuries!
5. Answer: We are only agents to judge cases of
admissions and loans, for these are frequent.
(a) (Mishnah): There is talk in the city that Leah was
engaged - we consider her to be engaged;
(b) If there is talk in the city that she was divorced - we
consider her to be divorced;
1. This is only if there is no excuse (a way to
discredit the rumors).
(c) (Gemara) Question: Do we really forbid her on her husband
(if there is talk that a Kohen divorced his wife)?!
2. Examples of excuses: If Leah was divorced on
condition, or engagement money was thrown to her,
and we were in doubt if it landed closer to her or
to him - these are excuses (why there is talk - but
in truth, the divorce/engagement may have been found
to be invalid)!
1. (Rav Ashi): Any rumors that started after Nisu'in,
we are not concerned for them.
(d) Answer: The Mishnah says thusly: There is talk in the
city that Leah was engaged - we consider her to be
engaged; rumors that she was engaged and divorced - we
consider her to be engaged and divorced. (I.e. the rumors
came at the time of engagement, before Nisu'in).
(e) Question: Why can we rely on rumors (that she was
divorced) to permit her?
(f) Answer: These rumors break the rumors that she was
(g) (Rava): If there is talk that she had extramarital
relations, we are not concerned for this.
1. This is because we assume that the rumors started on
account of mere lewdness, not relations.
(h) Tana'im argue regarding this.
1. (Beraisa - R. Meir): A woman ate, walked haughtily,
or nursed a baby in the market - her husband must
divorce her (lest she had or will have extramarital
2. R. Akiva says, he need not divorce her until she
becomes the subject of gossiping women.
3. R. Yochanan ben Nuri: If so, anyone that hates a
woman can break up her marriage by starting rumors -
but the Torah said that a woman is not forbidden on
i. We learn a Gezeirah Shavah - "He found in her
Ervas Davar (infidelity)"; "According to 2
witnesses a Davar (matter) will be
ii. In both cases, solid evidence is required.