ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous dafEruvin 94
(a) At least ten Amos plus of the dividing-wall between the Chatzer and
the Reshus ha'Rabim needs to break before one will be Chayav (according to
Rebbi Eliezer) for subsequently carrying from one to the other.
(b) The Chachamim consider the broken section a Karmelis; so someone who
carries from it to the Reshus ha'Rabim or vice-versa will be Patur.
(a) Rebbi Yehudah quotes Rebbi Eliezer as saying that if the public chose
a path through a field, it becomes public property. And that is the
reasoning of Rebbi Eliezer in our Mishnah.
(b) This only applies however, if the public previously had a path there,
only they are not certain exactly where that path is.
(c) If it is only a matter of choosing their lost path, then why does
Rebbi Chanina say '*Ad* Makom Mechitzah Machlokes' - implying that the
dispute covers the entire courtyard up to the wall?
(d) We get round this - by amending Rav Chanina's statement to read not
'Ad' ... but '*Al* Makom Mechitzah Machlokes', meaning that they only
dispute the location of the *Mechitzah* (which the public re now re-
(a) Alternatively, Rebbi Eliezer holds that the sides of the street are
like the street (i.e. they have the Din of a Reshus ha'Rabim); whereas the
Chachamim hold that they have the Din of a Karmelis. They do not argue by
a regular case of 'Tzidei Reshus ha'Rabim' (in which case there would be a
balustrade (of stone posts) at the side of the road serving as buffers,
because then we would have restricted the Chachamim's opinion to that case
(because of the posts). In our case, where there are no posts, we would
have said that they agree with Rebbi Eliezer.
(b) Rebbi Eliezer only says 'mi'Tochah, because the Rabbanan (who do
indeed hold that the entire Chatzer is a Reshus ha'Rabim) say 'mi'Tochah'.
(c) The reason that the Rabbanan mention the middle of the Chatzer is -
because they are saying to Rebbi Eliezer 'Don't you agree with us that if
someone carried from the middle of the Chatzer to the street or vice-versa
he is Patur (because it has the Din of a Karmelis)? Then concede also that
one is Patur for carrying from the side (next to the street) into the
street and vice-versa!
(d) Rebbi Eliezer replies - that he agrees with them vis-a-vis the middle
of the Chatzer, where the public do not walk, but not vis-a-vis the part
of the Chatzer which is immediately beside the street. Since the public
walk there, he maintains, it has the Din of a Reshus ha'Rabim.
(a) Rebbi Yehudah says that a Chatzer whose walls dividing it from the
street were breached on two sides, or a room that was breached on two
sides - may continue to carry for that Shabbos, but may no longer do so on
(b) And the same applies to a Mavoy whose Lechi or Koreh were removed on
(c) Rebbi Yossi maintains that if they are permitted to carry on that
Shabbos, they will also be permitted to carry on subsequent Shabbasos, and
if they are forbidden to carry on subsequent Shabbasos, then they will
also be forbidden to carry on that Shabbos.
(a) The Tana (who forbids carrying in a Chatzer that is breached in two
walls leading to the street) is talking about a breach of up to ten Amos -
and is speaking when the breach occurred in a corner between two adjacent
(b) Although a breach of this size anywhere else would be considered a
Pesach, that is not the case by a breach in a corner, since people do not
usually tend to make Pesachim in corners.
(a) 'Pi Tikrah Yored ve'Sosem' - is fully effective by two sides of a
(b) According to Rav our Mishnah say 've'Chen Bayis she'Nifratz *mi'Shtei*
Ruchosav' - because the Tana is speaking when the house has a slanting
roof (in which case, we do not say 'Pi Tikrah Yored ve'Sosem'.
(c) The Tana mentions here two sides for exactly the same reason as he
mention it by Chatzer in the Reisha (because otherwise, the breach would
be considered a Pesach - see 5).
(a) When Shmuel says that our Mishnah is speaking even by a breach of
*more* than ten Amos - he is referring to the case of Chatzer (and not
that of house) in our Mishnah, and is giving an alternative answer to that
(b) The Tana speaks of *two* walls that broke - not because of the case of
*Chatzer*, where one wall will also forbid carrying there - but because of
the case of the *house* that was breached,.
(c) If not for the fact that the breach in the walls of the house was on
*two* sides, we would say 'Pi Tikrah Yored ve'Sosem'.
(d) Shmuel in principle, does *not* hold of 'Pi Tikrah Yored ve'Sosem' -
by a ceiling which is open on all four sides (i.e. which has no walls).
(a) Shmuel does not want to establish our Mishnah by a corner when the
roof slopes - like Rav does - because the Tana makes no mention of a
(b) Shmuel learns our Mishnah by a corner (like Rav) but instead of a
sloping roof, he establishes the case when the ceiling is breached to a
depth of four Tefachim, where we cannot say Levud (even according to Raban
Shimon ben Gamliel), and consequently, we cannot say 'Pi Tikrah Yored
ve'Sosem' (since the remaining ceiling is no longer an extension of the
wall - Rabeinu Chananel). Rashi however, explains that the ceiling is
breached to a length of five Amos and to a depth of four Amos (or
according to others, four Tefachim). This leaves four walls (shaped
roughly like a letter M); and by four walls, Shmuel does not hold 'Pi
Tikrah Yored ve'Sosem'. The reason for this Shiur is because then, the
diagonal across the entrance will be more than ten Amos, in which case, it
is no longer considered a Pesach (see Tosfos DH 've'Kiruyav').
(c) Rav disagrees with Shmuel, because according to him, 'Pi Tikrah Yored
ve'Sosem' applies even to four walls too. Note: Most Rishonim disagree
with Rashi's explanation (see Tosfos Amud Alef DH 'bi'Sh'tei Ruchos').
According to them, Rav holds of 'Pi Tikrah Yored ve'Sosem' by *two*
adjacent sides; whereas according to Shmuel, we only say it by *one* side.
But everyone agrees that it cannot be applied on *three* sides, nor even
on two *parallel* sides.
(a) Shmuel agrees that one may carry in a porch whose walls are not more
than ten Amos - because each wall is considered a Pesach (even though it
has no walls - see Ritva).
(b) In the second Lashon, even Rav will agree with Shmuel that one is
forbidden to carry more than four Amos in a porch whose sides are more
than ten Amos. And it is only when they are ten Amos or less that he
argues with him.
(c) Rav Yehudah says that a beam of four Amos permits carrying in a ruin
that opens into a street (because we say 'Pi Tikrah Yored ve'Sosem' even
on all four sides); and Rav Nachman quoting Rabah bar Avuha says the same
with regard to a beam of four Amos suspended over water.
(d) They are speaking about a beam of not more than ten Amos, and they
hold like ...
- ... both Rav and Shmuel - according to the *first* Lashon.
- ... Rav - according to the *second* Lashon.