ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous dafEruvin 84
(a) Rav explains the Seifa of our Mishnah ('Pachos mi'Kahn, le'Chatzer') -
to mean '*Af* le'Chatzer (since, according to him, the mound of earth
etc., of less than ten Tefachim is as easily accessible to the Mirpeset as
it is to the Chatzer). Consequently, both are forbidden to use it.
(b) The proof for this lies in the Seifa ('Bameh Devarim Amurim,
bi'Semuchah, Aval be'Mufleges, Afilu Gavo'a Yud Tefachim, le'Chatzer').
Now if 'le'Chatzer' means that the residents of the Chatzer are permitted
to use the mound, why should *they* be permitted to use it more than those
of the Mirpeset? Consequently, the Tana must mean 'Af le'Mirpeset' and
both sets of residents are forbidden to use it.
(c) Shmuel too, will learn the Seifa of the Mishnah like Rav does -
according to him, even though 'la'Zeh be'Shilshul, ve'la'Zeh bi'Zerikah',
we give it to the one who uses it by Shilshul, that is only if they lower
it vertically, but if they need to lower it diagonally, that is no easier
than throwing, in which case they are both forbidden to use it.
(a) Establishing the Mishnah which gives the pit, as well as the mound of
earth surrounding it (which raises it to the height of ten Tefachim) to
the B'nei Mirpeset, when it is full of water, creates the problem - that
the level of water is bound to drop, in which case, it will become
Had the Tana not mentioned Chulyas ha'Sela, we would have thought that -
although a Sela is permitted (to the residents of the balcony) the Chulyas
ha'Bor, even when it is full of Tevel-fruit, will be forbidden, a decree
because of a pit which is full of Ma'asered fruit.
(b) The Gemara does not like the suggestion that since, when it is full it
is permitted, it remains permitted even when the water in the pit
decreases - because the reverse is more logical: i.e. since it will be
forbidden when the water level drops, it is forbidden even while it is
(c) A pit full of Tevel crops is better than a pit full of water - because
it is Muktzah, and there is therefore no likelihood of removing some of
the fruit during Shabbos, and rendering the rest prohibited.
(d) The Tana of our Mishnah mentions Chulyas ha'Bor together with Sela -
to teach us that Chulyas ha'Bor contains Muktzah (Tevel) and not water,
like a Sela, which is Muktzah.
(a) From the fact that the Tana in the Beraisa gives the ledge on the
lower half of the wall to the residents of the Chatzer, and the ledge on
the upper half to the residents of the attic - we can deduce that a ledge
that is in between the top ten Tefachim and the bottom ten, is forbidden
to both sets of residents, even though one of them is be'Shilshul, and the
other, bi'Zerikah - a proof for Rav.
(b) Rav Nachman establishes the Beraisa by a wall that is only nineteen
Tefachim high; below ten Tefachim is the equivalent of 'la'Zeh be'Pesach
ve'la'Zeh be'Shilshul', which, in everyone's opinion, goes to the lower
set of residents; above ten, makes it 'la'Zeh ba'Pesach' (since it less
than ten Tefachim high from his balcony) 've'la'Zeh bi'Zerikah' - which
everyone agrees goes to the upper residents. In any event, there are no
middle residents, in which case, there is no proof from here for Rav.
(a) The Mishnah later in the Perek, forbids both owners of suspended
balconies at different heights (who built the required walls by only one
of the balconies), to draw water via the Mechitzos - Now here we have a
case 'la'Zeh be'Shilshul, ve'la'Zeh bi'Zerikah ve'Shilshul', yet neither
owner is permitted to use ledge; and it goes without saying that this will
be the Din by 'la'Zeh be'Shilshul ve'la'Zeh bi'Zerikah' - like Rav.
(b) Rav Ada bar Ahavah answers this Kashya by establishing the case when the owner of the lower balcony has
access to the upper one - meaning that the owner of the lower balcony has access via ladders to the upper one, with the
result that it is 'Zeh ve'Zeh be'Shilshul' (which everybody agrees renders it forbidden to both owners.
explains 'Kegon de'Kayamin Betoch Asarah' - meaning that, since they are within ten Tefachim of each other, they both
share the Reshus, in which case, they will automatically forbid each other to carry (even if it is la'Zeh be'Pesach,
ve'la'Zeh bi'Zerikah') - even according to Shmuel (who only permits such a case when they are in two separate Reshuyos,
and it is possible to give the Reshus to the one and not to the other). 've'Lo Mibaye Ka'amar' - means that really,
since *that* is the Tana's reason, it ought not have been necessary to mention that the lower one was the one to fail
to make Mechitzos (any more than the upper one). It does mention it however, in the form of 'Lo Mibaye' i.e. it goes
without saying that, when the *upper one* failed to make Mechitzos, when it is 'la'Zeh be'Shilshul, ve'la'Zeh
be'Shilshul' (since we are speaking when they are both within four Tefachim across from each other, and within ten
Tefachim in height), the one forbids the other to use it; but even when it is the *lower one* who did not make the
ledge, when it is a matter of 'la'Zeh be'Shilshul, ve'la'Zeh bi'Zerikah u've'Shilshul' (when it might be permitted -
like Shmuel), still both are forbidden to use it (as we have just explained).
(a) Abaye explains that, when Rav Nachman quotes Shmuel as saying that in
order to carry from a Mirpeset to a roof that has a Reshus ha'Rabim
running alongside one of its sides, one requires a fixed ladder from the
Mirpeset to the roof - it is because the passers-by in the street, who use
the roof by throwing on to it, and the residents of the Mirpeset are
within ten Tefachim of each other, and they therefore forbid each other
from carrying on the roof (even though it is 'la'Zeh be'Pesach ve'la'Zeh
bi'Zerikah', which would normally be permitted) - unless they put up a
fixed ladder to demonstrate that they have removed themselves from the
(b) Despite the fact that the Mirpeset is less than ten Tefachim from the
Reshus ha'Rabim, it is nevertheless not a Karmelis - because it speaks
when the Mirpeset has walls, and an entrance of not more than ten Amos to
the Reshus ha'Rabim.
(c) Rav Papa establishes Shmuel's Din even when there *are* ten Tefachim
between the ground and the Mirpeset - because, although the roof cannot be
used by passers-by in the street to place heavy loads, it is however,
convenient to place their hats on it whilst they stop to rest.
Consequently, it is 'la'Zeh be'Pesach, ve'la'Zeh ba'Pesach', who forbid
each other even according to Shmuel. Consequently, there is no proof for