ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Chulin 86
CHULIN 86-90 - Sponsored by a generous grant from an anonymous donor.
Kollel Iyun Hadaf is indebted to him for his encouragement and support and
prays that Hashem will repay him in kind.
(a) We ask why Ravin cited Rebbi as having instructed Rebbi Chiya 'Tzei
Nechor', and not 'Tzei Terof'. We refute the suggestion that Rebbi holds
Shechitah she'Einah Re'uyah Sh'mah Shechitah' - on the basis of Rebbi
Yochanan, who just taught us that regarding Kisuy ha'Dam, Rebbi holds ' ...
Lo Sh'mah Shechitah', like Rebbi Shimon.
(b) So we answer - that he might well have said 'Tzei Terof', but that he
preferred to say 'Tzei Nechor', to teach us that Shechitas ha'Of is min
ha'Torah (because had it been mi'de'Rabbanan, Nechirah would have required
Kisuy, as we explained).
(a) When Ravin bar Aba (or Rebbi Avin bar Sh'va) said that from the time
that the B'nei ha'Golah arrived in Eretz Yisrael, neither did the wine turn
sour nor did the linen clothes become moth-infested - he was referring to
Rebbi Chiya and his sons, who originated from Bavel.
(b) Rebbi Chiya and his sons also prevented - shooting-stars, earthquakes,
storm-winds and thunder-storms (all of which have connotations of curse).
(c) In spite of what we just said, Rebbi Chiya's own linen clothes became
infested with moths - because the merit of Tzadikim sometimes helps others,
but not themselves.
(d) And we compare this to a statement of Rav Yehudah Amar Rav quoting a
daily bas-Kol - that whereas the entire world is fed on the merit of
'Chanina B'ni' (Rebi Chanina ben Dosa), Chanina himself makes do with a Kav
of carobs from Erev Shabbos to Erev Shabbos.
(a) Our Mishnah requires Kisuy ha'Dam following the Shechitah of a 'Chashu'
- provided they Shechted under supervision.
(b) The other area of Halachah that is affected by this condition is - that
of Oso ve'es B'no (at least, according to Rebbi Meir, as we shall now see).
(c) If they Shechted the mother without supervision, Rebbi Meir permits the
Shechitah of the child. Whether the Shechitas 'Chashu' was performed with
supervision or not - the Chachamim forbid the child.
(d) The Chachamim do concede to Rebbi Meir however - that the person who
does Shecht the second animal, does not receive Malkos.
(a) The problem with the Chachamim, who argue with Rebbi Meir in the Seifa
of our Mishnah is - why they do not also argue in the Reisha?
(b) We initially suggest that, in the Reisha, the Rabbanan will agree that
if there is no supervision, the blood will not require Kisuy - because if
it would, people would think that the Shechitah must have been Kasher, and
will take their cue from there to eat the animal.
(c) In the Seifa, on the other hand, they do not, by the same token, permit
Shechting the child - because not Shechting the child will not lead to any
sin, since people will merely think that its meat is not required.
(d) We refute the Kashya that in the Reisha too, people might well say that
he is only covering the blood in order to keep his yard clean - by
countering that they will certainly not say that in a case where he Shechts
into a trash-heap.
(e) And we counter the second counter-argument, that in a case where the
owner comes to ask whether he needs to cover the blood or not, nobody will
think that either - by asking the same Kashya on the Seifa, that if he
comes to ask whether he is permitted to Shecht the second animal or not,
nobody will think that he is not Shechting the second animal because he
does not need its meat.
(a) So we finally explain that the Rabbanan do not specifically argue with
Rebbi Meir in the Reisha - because they were waiting for him to finish his
statement before disputing both the Seifa and the Reisha.
(b) The Rabbanan consider the Shechitah of a 'Chashu' to be a Shechitah
mi'Safek le'Chumra) - whereas Rebbi Meir considers it Vaday Neveilah (even
(c) In fact, Rebbi Ya'akov Amar Rebbi Yochanan declares - that according to
Rebbi Meir, anyone who eats from the Shechitah of a 'Chashu' is Chayav
(d) ...due to the fact that most of their deeds are defected, as Rebbi Ami
(a) Rav Papa asked Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua (some say the other way
round) why Rebbi Ami requires a majority, because even a Miy'ut will be
sufficient - since Rebbi Meir is 'Chayash le'Miy'uta' (takes the minority
into account) ...
(b) ... not because a Miy'ut is stronger than a Rov - but because we
combine it with any prevalent Chazakah ...
(c) ... such as the Chazakah of 'Eiver min ha'Chai' in our case.
(a) Rav Papa's Kashya is based on Rebbi Meir in a Mishnah in Taharos, where
Rebbi Meir declares Tahor a piece of dough that a child is holding in his
hand, as he plays beside a large dough. The ...
1. ... Miy'ut there is the fact that some children do not play in the
trash-heap and are not therefore Tamei.
(b) The Chachamim, who go after the majority - declare the dough Tamei.
2. ... Chazakah which combines to render the dough Tahor is - the Chezkas
Taharah of the dough.
(c) Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua replied to Rav Papa - that Rebbi Meir
only relies on a Miy'ut to permit a Safek Tum'ah, but not to permit a Safek
Isur (i.e. to Shecht the second animal after a 'Chashu' Shechted the first
(a) Rebbi issued two contradictory rulings - one like Rebbi Meir (in our
Mishnah) and one like the Rabbanan.
(b) We set about resolving the problem - by trying to discover which was
the latter ruling.
(c) When Rebbi Ami found Rebbi Aba b'rei de'Rebbi Chiya bar Aba and Rebbi
Zeira standing outside the Beis-Hamedrash in the main street of Caesaria -
he reminded them that he had already instructed them before not to stand
outside the Beis-Hamedrash, in case they were needed inside to resolve any
problems that might arise there.
(d) Rebbi Zeira entered, whilst Rebbi Aba b'rei de'Rebbi Chiya bar Aba
(a) When, upon entering the Beis-Hamedrash, Rebbi Zeira heard them
discussing precisely our She'eilah 'Hei Minaihu Achrita' - he declared what
a pity it was that he could not ask Rebbi Aba (who apparently, had already
departed) what his father said about the matter.
(b) He thought that Rebbi Aba might solve the problem - because his father,
Rebbi Chiya bar Aba, used to review all his learning in front of Rebbi
Yochanan (who was the greatest authority in Eretz Yisrael at the time)
every thirty days.
(c) We finally resolve the She'eilah from the message that Rebbi Elazar
sent to the b'nei Golah - that Rebbi ruled like Rebbi Meir (ignoring his
other ruling like the Chachamim, which must have been stated first).
(a) The Tana Kama of our Mishnah rules that - one Kisuy will suffice to
cover the blood of ...
1. ... a hundred Chayos or birds that one just Shechted.
(b) Rebbi Yehudah, based on the Pasuk in Acharei-Mos (in connection with
Kisuy ha'Dam) "Chayah *O* Of" - rules that one must first cover the blood
of the Chayah, and then Shecht the bird.
2. ... a Chayah and a bird that one just Shechted.
(c) The Rabbanan counter Rebbi Yehudah's proof, because they learn from "O"
- 'Lechalek' (that one is even Chayav to cover the blood of either a Chayah
or a bird, and not specifically when one Shechts both).
(d) Rebbi Yehudah disagrees with that - because *he* learns 'Lechalek' from
"Ki Nefesh Kol Basar *Damo* be'Nafcho Hu".
(a) The Rabbanan prove from the Lashon of the Pasuk there "Ki Nefesh *Kol
Basar* Damo be'Nafsho Hu" - that "Damo" also implies the blood of many animals.
(b) According to Rebbi Chanina, Rebbi Yehudah agrees with the Rabbanan that
the Shechitah of a Chayah and of a bird are considered like one - in
respect of the fact that after covering the blood of the Chayah, it is not
necessary to recite a fresh B'rachah over the Shechitah of the bird.
(a) Ravina (or Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava) queries Rebbi Chanina from an
episode that occurred with the Talmidim of Rav, who had just finished their
meal, and who asked Rav Yeiva Saba (who was serving them), after informing
him that they wished to Bensch - to bring something to drink.
(b) Following their latter request, Rav Yeiva Saba, quoting Rav, commented
- that having declared their intention to Bensch, it was forbidden to eat
or drink, without reciting the appropriate B'rachah.
(c) Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava (or Rav Ashi) reconciles Rebbi Chanina with Rav
- by differentiating between 'Hav Lan u'Nevarech' which is a Hefsek, and
requires a fresh B'rachah before continuing to drink - because it is
impossible to Bensch and drink simultaneously, and the Kisuy ha'Dam of a
Chayah, which is not a Hefsek - since it is possible to cover the blood of
the Chayah with one hand, and Shecht the bird simultaneously with the other.