POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Chulin 116
CHULIN 116 (27 Iyar) - Dedicated by Gitle Bekelnitzky in honor of the
sixth Yahrzeit of her father, Zev ben Ephraim v'Chaya Krause.
1) QUESTIONS ON THE "KAL VA'CHOMER"
(a) Question: We should challenge, Kil'ayim was never
permitted, but Basar v'Chalav were permitted before they
were cooked together!
2) WHAT DIFFERENT TANA'IM FORBID
(b) Answer (Rav Ada bar Ahavah): Since we do not ask this, it
must be that in Kil'ei ha'Kerem, what was planted (the
tree, vine or seeds, which were initially permitted)
becomes forbidden, so this is just like Basar v'Chalav.
(c) Question (Rav Shemaya bar Ze'ira - Mishnah): If one
passes a holed flowerpot through a vineyard:
1. If what is growing in the pot grew another one part
in 200 (while passing through), it is forbidden;
(d) Answer (Abaye) Contradiction: One verse says "Pen Tikdash
ha'Mele'ah" (only additional growth becomes forbidden);
another verse forbids "Ha'Zera";
2. If it did not grow more, it is permitted!
(e) Resolution: If it was Kil'ayim when planted, it is
forbidden once it takes root;
1. If it was planted b'Heter, and later grew in a
situation of Kil'ayim, it is forbidden only if it
grew another one part in 200.
(a) Our Mishnah is not like the following Tana:
3) MILK IN THE STOMACH
1. (Beraisa - R. Shimon ben Yehudah): It is forbidden
to eat Basar v'Chalav, but it is Mutar b'Hana'ah.
(b) (Mishnah - R. Akiva): The Isur does not apply to Chayos
and birds (and Tamei animals - these are excluded by the
three times it says "Gedi" in the verses of Basar
i. One verse forbidding Basar v'Chalav first says
"You are a Kodesh nation to Hash-m"; another
verse says "You will be Kodesh people to me (do
not eat Tereifah meat)";
ii. Just like Tereifah may not be eaten but it is
Mutar b'Hana'ah, also Basar v'Chalav.
(c) Question: But we need these to learn what Shmuel (113B)
expounded from them!
(d) Answer: R. Akiva does not need verses to teach (three of)
1. He holds that in general, Isur Chal Al Isur (so
Basar v'Chalav applies to Chelev and Neveilah);
(e) (Mishnah - R. Yosi ha'Glili): It says, "Do not eat a
2. He holds that a fetus is a fully-fledged kid (so
Basar v'Chalav applies to it).
3. Therefore, he expounds all three "Gedi"s like above.
(f) Question: What do R. Akiva and R. Yosi ha'Glili argue
(g) Answer #1: R. Yosi ha'Glili holds that mid'Oraisa, Basar
v'Chalav applies to Chayos; R. Akiva says, this is only
(h) Answer #2: They argue about birds.
1. R. Akiva says, mid'Oraisa, Basar v'Chalav does not
apply to birds - this implies that mid'Rabanan it
(i) Support (Beraisa): In R. Eliezer's region, [when a
circumcision fell on Shabbos they would arrange that
there was no knife available, requiring that] they would
cut trees to make coals to make a knife (he permits all
preparations for Milah);
2. R. Yosi ha'Glili holds that it does not apply to
birds even mid'Rabanan.
1. In R. Yosi ha'Glili's region, they would eat fowl
cooked with milk.
(j) Levi visited the house of Yosef the bird-trapper; they
served peacock with milk - he did not comment.
1. Rebbi: Why didn't you excommunicate them?
2. Levi: That is the region of R. Yehudah ben Beseira -
presumably, he taught them like R. Yosi ha'Glili,
who permits this.
(a) (In this Sugya, 'stomach' refers to milk in the stomach
unless specified otherwise.)
(b) (Mishnah): The stomach of a Nochri's animal or of a
Neveilah is forbidden;
(c) If one used the skin of the stomach to curdle milk, it is
4) WHAT MAY BE USED TO MAKE CHEESE
1. If the milk absorbed the Ta'am of meat, it is
(d) If a Kosher animal nursed from a Tereifah, the stomach is
(e) If a Tereifah nursed from a Kosher animal, the stomach is
permitted, because the milk is just gathered there.
(f) (Gemara) Question: Why does the Mishnah list separately a
Nochri's animal and Neveilah - whatever he slaughters is
(g) Answer #1 (Rav Huna): The Mishnah forbids the milk even
if a Yisrael bought a kid from a Nochri and slaughtered
it himself - we are concerned that it nursed from a
1. Question: Are we really concerned for that?!
(h) Answer #2 (Shmuel): The Mishnah states one case, the
stomach of an animal slaughtered by a Nochri, which is a
Neveilah (is forbidden).
i. (Mishnah): We may buy eggs from Nochrim, we are
not concerned that they are from a Neveilah or
2. Correction: Rather, we are concerned that it nursed
from a Tamei animal.
3. Question: Why are we more concerned for nursing from
a Tamei animal than from a Tereifah?
4. Answer: Tamei animals are more common than Tereifos.
5. Question: If so, we should be concerned even
regarding animals of a Yisrael!
6. Answer: If a Yisrael sees his animal nursing from a
Tamei animal, he will separate it; therefore,
Chachamim did not decree;
i. If a Nochri sees this, he will leave it, so
(i) Contradiction: But Shmuel taught that cheese of Nochrim
is forbidden because they use the *skin* of the stomach
to curdle it;
1. Inference: The milk in the stomach is permitted!
(j) Resolution: Originally, the Mishnah forbade milk in the
stomach (of a Neveilah, and Shmuel explained the
1. Shmuel explained why cheese of Nochrim is forbidden
according to the revised version of the Mishnah.
(k) Question: But the Reisha forbids the stomach of a
Nochri's animal or of a Neveilah!
2. (Mishnah): If a Kosher animal nursed from a
Tereifah, the stomach is forbidden; if a Tereifah
nursed from a Kosher animal, the stomach is
(l) Answer #1 (Rav Chisda): Eating something (milk) found in
a Neveilah looks like eating a Neveilah, so Chachamim
1. A Tereifah was slaughtered, it does not look like
eating a Neveilah, so Chachamim permit it.
(m) Objection (Rava): To the contrary!
1. Neveilah is repulsive, even if the milk inside was
permitted, no one would come to eat the Neveilah -
still, the milk is forbidden;
(n) Answer #2 (Rav Yitzchak): The Reisha was the original
version - milk inside a Neveilah (or Tereifah) is
2. Tereifah is not repulsive, if the milk was
permitted, people might come to eat the Tereifah -
all the more so, Chachamim should forbid it!
1. The Seifa is the revised version - milk inside a
Tereifah (or Neveilah) is permitted.
2. Since people were used to the original version, it
was left in the Mishnah.
(a) (R. Chiya bar Aba citing R. Yochanan): We may curdle milk
using the [milk in the] stomach of a Neveilah, but not of
an animal slaughtered by a Nochri;
(b) Question (R. Shimon bar Aba): Is this like R. Eliezer,
who presumes that all acts of a Nochri are for idolatry?
(c) Answer (R. Chiya bar Aba): Of course it is!
(d) (Rav Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak citing R. Yochanan): We may
curdle milk using the [milk in the] stomach of a
Neveilah, or an animal slaughtered by a Nochri - we are
not concerned for R. Eliezer's opinion.
(e) Version #1 (our text, Tosfos): The Halachah is, we not
may curdle milk in the skin of the stomach of a Neveilah;
1. We may use [congealed milk in] the stomach of the
(f) Version #2 (Rashi): The Halachah is, we may not curdle
milk in the skin of the stomach of a Neveilah;
i. A Neveilah or an animal slaughtered by a
2. The reason is, milk that congealed in the stomach is
considered like waste (and is no longer forbidden).
ii. A Kosher animal that nursed from a Tereifah,
and all the more so a Tereifah that nursed from
a Kosher animal;
1. We may use the [milk in the] stomach of a Neveilah
or an animal slaughtered by a Nochri (if it nursed
from a Kosher animal, because the milk inside is
merely gathered, it is not like part of the kid).