POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Chulin 108
1) MEAT COOKED WITH MILK
(a) (Mishnah): If a drop of milk fell on a piece of meat in a
2) A FORBIDDEN PIECE BECOMES LIKE A NEVEILAH
1. If the milk gives Ta'am to the piece, it is
(b) (Gemara - Abaye): Regarding all Isurim, if Heter absorbed
Ta'am from Isur, it becomes forbidden mid'Oraisa, even if
we do not see the Isur itself.
2. If the pot was stirred, the milk gives Ta'am to the
contents in the pot, it is all forbidden.
1. If this law was only mid'Rabanan, we could not
explain why we don't learn from meat and milk (the
meat is forbidden because it absorbed the Ta'am of
milk, even though we do not see any milk).
(c) Rejection (Rava): Regarding other Isurim, if Heter
absorbed Ta'am Isur, it could be permitted mid'Oraisa;
i. Suggestion: We do not learn from meat and milk,
because it is a Chidush. (Rashi - each is
permitted by itself, together they are
forbidden; alternatively, it is forbidden to
cook them, even without eating them. Tosfos -
they are permitted when mixed together (cold),
only cooking forbids them.)
ii. Rejection: If it is a Chidush, it should be
forbidden even if no Ta'am is absorbed!
1. Meat and milk is different, for the Torah forbids
normal cooking (there is enough milk to give Ta'am
to the meat).
(a) (Rav): Once the milk gives Ta'am to one piece (of meat),
that piece becomes like a Neveilah, and forbids all the
pieces, because they are the same species.
(b) Question (Mar Zutra brei d'Rav Mari): Rav's law is like
R. Yehudah, who says that an Isur is never Batul in its
1. Must we say that he argues with Rava?
(c) Answer (Ravina): If the meat was cooking in a thin gravy,
Rav agrees with Rava, we ignore the other pieces, and the
forbidden piece is Batul in the gravy;
2. (Rava): R. Yehudah holds that if Isur is mixed with
Heter of its own Min *and* another Min, we ignore
its own Min, and it can become Batul in the other
Min (if there is enough of the other Min).
1. The case is, it was cooking in a thick gravy (full
of bits of meat), which is considered the same Min,
so the forbidden piece cannot be Batul.
(d) Question: Does Rav permit Efshar l'Sochto (if food 'A'
(Heter) received Ta'am from an Isur (and became
forbidden), then 'A' was cooked with more Heter, do we
say that the forbidden Ta'am exudes, and 'A' is
permitted, if there is enough Heter for Bitul?)
1. Suggestion: If he permitted Efshar l'Sochto, the
piece would not become like Neveilah (and forbid the
rest of the pot, rather, it would become permitted
(if there is enough food in the pot)!)
(e) Answer: Rather, he forbids Efshar l'Sochto.
1. (Rav, R. Chanina, and R. Yochanan): Efshar l'Sochto
(f) Question: Does Rav really forbid?!
2. (Shmuel, R. Shimon bar Rebbi, Reish Lakish): It is
1. (Rav): If a K'Zayis of meat fell into a cauldron of
milk, the meat is forbidden, the milk is permitted.
2. If Rav forbids Efshar l'Sochto, why is the milk
3) DO MEAT AND MILK COMBINE?
(g) Answer #1: Indeed, Rav forbids Efshar l'Sochto;
i. Some milk was absorbed in the meat, and became
forbidden - when it exudes from the meat, it
should forbid all the milk!
1. Meat and milk is different - it says "Do not cook a
kid in its mother's milk" - if one did so, only the
kid becomes forbidden, not the milk.
(h) Answer #2: Rather, Rav holds that also the milk becomes
forbidden; the case is, the meat fell into a cauldron of
boiling milk - the meat only absorbs, it does not emit
(milk that it absorbed).
2. Objection: Rav does not say so!
i. (Rav): If Reuven cooked half a k'Zayis of meat
with half a k'Zayis of milk, he is not lashed
for cooking it, but one who eats (all of) it is
ii. If only the meat becomes forbidden, he cannot
be lashed for eating half k'Zayis of Isur!
(i) Question: When it stops boiling, it will emit the
(j) Answer: The case is, the meat was removed while the milk
was still boiling.
(a) (Rav): Reuven cooked half a k'Zayis of meat with half a
k'Zayis of milk - he is not lashed for cooking it, but
one who eats (all of) it is lashed.
4) CAN ISUR BECOME PERMITTED?
(b) Question: In any case, this is difficult!
1. If the meat and milk join up, Reuven should be
lashed for cooking it!
(c) Answer: Really, they don't join up; one is lashed for
eating it when half a k'Zayis of meat and half a k'Zayis
of milk were taken from a pot in which a k'Zayis of meat
was cooked with a k'Zayis of milk.
2. If they do not join up, one who eats it should be
not be lashed!
(d) (Levi): One is lashed even for cooking together half a
k'Zayis of each.
(e) (Levi - Beraisa): Just like one is lashed for eating half
a k'Zayis of each, one is lashed for cooking them
1. One is liable for cooking to the point at which a
non-Jew would eat it.
(a) Tana'im argue whether or not Isur can become permitted.
(b) (Beraisa - R. Yehudah): If a drop of milk fell on a piece
of meat in a pot, and the milk gives Ta'am to the piece,
it becomes like Neveilah, and forbids all the pieces, for
they are Mino;
(c) Chachamim say, they are forbidden only it gives Ta'am to
the sauce, Kipah (thick gravy with bits of meat) and
1. Rebbi: I agree with R. Yehudah when the pot was not
stirred or covered; I agree with Chachamim when the
pot was stirred or covered.
(d) Question: What does he mean by 'it was not stirred or
1. Suggestion: It was not stirred or covered at all.
(e) Answer: Rather, it was not stirred or covered at first,
2. Rejection: Granted, the piece could absorb the Ta'am
of the milk, but it would not impart Ta'am to the
other pieces (R. Yehudah would not forbid them!)
(f) Question: The piece absorbs the Ta'am of the milk, and
emits it - even the piece should become permitted again!
(g) Answer: R. Yehudah forbids Efshar l'Sochto.