POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Chulin 77
CHULIN 76-78 - sponsored by Dr. Lindsay A. Rosenwald of Lawrence NY, in
honor of his father, David ben Aharon ha'Levy Rosenwald of blessed memory.
1) CAN SINEWS HELP COVER A BONE?
(a) A break was covered by sinews.
2) A FETAL SAC
1. Rava: There is no concern - R. Yochanan holds that
sinews are as good as flesh.
(b) Question: Why was Rava silent - he taught, the Halachah
follows Reish Lakish against R. Yochanan in only three
cases (not including this)!
i. (R. Yochanan): Sinews that harden (in a mature
animal) are considered like meat regarding
(eating) Korban Pesach.
2. Rava: Also, the Torah is concerned for the money of
Yisrael (so we should not be stringent).
3. Objection (Rav Papa): How can you be lenient,
against the opinion of Reish Lakish - the question
involves a Torah Isur!
4. Rava was silent.
(c) Answer: This case was not included, because R. Yochanan
retracted to agree with Reish Lakish.
1. (R. Yochanan): Don't ask me from that Mishnah (which
says that the skin of the head is considered meat,
even though it will later harden) - it was taught by
an individual, the Halachah does not follow it.
(d) A broken bone stuck out; a piece of it fell off. Abaye
did not reach a conclusion.
(e) (Rava): The Mishnah says, if the majority of flesh
remains, it is Kosher - we do not care if part of the
bone fell off.
(f) Questions (Ravina): What if the surrounding flesh is
scattered? If it is flattened out? If it is Mismasmes?
1. Question: What is 'Mismasmes'?
(g) Questions: If the flesh is punctured, or peeled off the
bone, or cracked, or if the bottom third is missing, what
is the law?
2. Answer (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua): It is rotted
flesh that a doctor scrapes away.
(h) Answer (to the last question - Ula): Skin is like flesh
(if the skin is intact, even if the bottom third is
missing, it is Kosher.)
(i) Rejection: Perhaps that is only when the skin is in its
proper place (but here, it is far from where it should
(j) Question (Rav Ashi): If the skin is like a ring (a large
hole goes through), what is the law?
(k) Answer (Rav Yehudah): If the area is scraped with another
bone, it will heal.
1. It should not be scraped with iron, for this will
make grooves and aggravate it.
(l) (Rav Papa): The cure only works if the bone is where the
(a) (Mishnah): If one slaughters an animal and finds a fetal
sac, if it does not repulse him, he may eat it;
(b) It does not have Tum'as Neveilah, nor Tum'as Ochlim;
1. If one intended to eat it, it receives Tum'as
Ochlim, but it is not a Nevelah.
(c) If a fetal sac partially left the womb (before
slaughter), it is forbidden to eat (any part) of it;
1. A fetal sac indicates that there was a fetus, both
in a woman, and in an animal.
(d) If an animal giving birth for the first time miscarried,
and a fetal sac came out, it may be cast to dogs (it does
not have Kedushas Bechor);
(e) If a Korban miscarried a fetal sac, it must be buried;
1. It may not be buried at the fork in the road, nor
may it be suspended in a tree, for these are Darchei
ha'Emori (ways of idolaters.)
(f) (Gemara) Question: From where do we know this?
(g) Answer (Beraisa): "You will eat *every* animal" - this
includes a fetal sac;
1. One might have thought, this is even if part of it
left the womb - "You will eat *it*", not a fetal sac
that partially left.
(h) Question: Since a fetal sac always contains a child
(albeit squashed), if part of it left, we must be
concerned that it was born (and slaughter did not permit
it) - why is a verse needed to forbid it?
(i) Answer: Indeed, the verse is only an Asmachta.
(j) (Mishnah): It is not Metamei...
(k) Question (R. Yitzchak Nafcha): If a donkey's hide was
cooked for a long time, what is the law?
1. Question: What does he ask about? Whether he asks
regarding Tum'as Ochlim, or Tum'as Nevelah, a
Beraisa explicitly answers this!
3) THE "KEDUSHAH" OF A "BECHOR"
(l) (Mishnah): If the fetal sac (partially) left the womb
(the entire sac is forbidden).
i. (Beraisa): The skin and a fetal sac are not
Mekabel Tum'as Ochlim, unless the skin was
overcooked and one intended to eat the fetal
2. Answer: Really, he asked about Tum'as Ochlim;
ii. (Beraisa): "Nivlaso" - (the meat of the carcass
is Tamei,) not the skin, bones, sinews, horns,
iii. (Rabah bar bar Chanah): Surely, these are not
meat, the verse is needed only (to Metaher from
Tum'as Neveilah even) if they were cooked and
i. The Beraisa discusses other skins - donkey skin
is repulsive, perhaps it is not Mekabel Tum'ah
even after overcooking.
(m) Version #1 (R. Elazar): This applies only if there is not
also a fetus; if there is also a fetus, we are not
concerned that the sac contains a (dissolved) fetus.
(n) (R. Yochanan): Whether or not there is also a fetus, we
are concerned that there is a fetus in the sac.
(o) Objection: But R. Yirmeyah taught that R. Elazar is more
stringent than R. Yochanan!
(p) Version #2 (R. Elazar): This applies only if the sac is
not tied to a fetus; if it is, we are not concerned that
the sac contains a fetus.
(q) (R. Yochanan): The Mishnah applies if there is not also a
fetus; if there is also a fetus, whether or not it is
tied to the sac, we are not concerned that there is a
fetus in the sac.
1. This version fits R. Yirmeyah's teaching (R. Elazar
is more stringent than R. Yochanan.) (end of Version
(r) Support (for R. Elazar - Beraisa): If a woman miscarried
the form of a animal or bird, and a fetal sac:
1. If they are tied together, we are not concerned that
the sac contains a fetus (regarding Tum'as Yoledes);
2. If they are not tied together, we are concerned,
perhaps the sac of the animal dissolved, and a
(human) fetus in the remaining sac dissolved - we
are stringent for both possibilities (Rashi - we are
also concerned that the animal was the fetus of this
sac and she is not a Yoledes; Tosfos - we are
concerned for the stringencies of Yoledes Zachar and
of Yoledes Nekevah.)
(a) (Mishnah): If an animal giving birth for the first time
miscarried (the fetus may be fed to dogs.)
(b) Question: Why is this?
(c) Answer (Rav Ika brei d'Rav R. Ami): Most animals born are
Kosher for Kodshim, the minority are not, i.e. Nidmeh
(the child resembles a different species than the
1. Half of all animals born are female (which do not
get Kedushas Bechor);
(d) (Mishnah): If a Kodesh animal miscarries, the fetus must
2. Since half of all firstborn animals are male, and
some of them are Nidmeh, a minority receive Kedushas
Bechor (we assume that the fetus is from the
(e) This is because most animals born are Kosher for Kodshim.
(f) (Mishnah): We do not bury it...
(g) (Abaye and Rava): Anything done to heal is not (forbidden
on account of) 'Darchei (ways of) the Emori (Nochrim)';
if it does not (have a logical or medical reason why it
should) heal, it is Darchei ha'Emori.
(h) Question (Beraisa #1): If a tree's produce falls off, one
ties a ribbon around the tree and puts stones on it.
1. We understand putting stones on it (this will weaken
it, so it will not cast down its produce), but there
is no sound reason for the ribbon!
(i) Answer: The ribbon informs people to pray that the tree
1. (Beraisa): "'Tamei, Tamei' he will call" - a Metzora
announces his plight, so people will pray for him.
(j) (Ravina): There is a practice to hang a cluster of dates
on a date tree whose dates fall down - this is like the
Tana of Beraisa #1.