POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Chulin 15
CHULIN 14-15 - Two weeks of study material have been dedicated by Mrs.
Estanne Abraham Fawer to honor the fourth Yahrzeit of her father, Reb
Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Weiner), who passed away 18 Teves 5760. May the
merit of supporting and advancing Talmud study during the week of his
Yahrzeit serve as an Iluy for his Neshamah.
1) BENEFITING FROM LABOR DONE ON SHABBOS
(a) Answer #4 (to 14A, 1:d - Rav Ashi): The Mishnah is like
R. Yehudah's opinion regarding Melachah done on Shabbos
2) THE FINAL RULING
(b) (Mishnah - R. Meir): If one cooks on Shabbos:
1. If he was Shogeg, he (and others) may eat the food
(c) Question: Why not say that the Mishnah is when he was
Mezid, like R. Meir?
2. If he was Mezid, he (and others) may not eat the
food (on Shabbos);
3. R. Yehudah says, if he was Shogeg, he (and others)
may eat the food after Shabbos; if he was Mezid, he
may never eat the food (but others may);
4. R. Yochanan ha'Sandlar says, if he was Shogeg, he
may never eat the food, but others may eat it after
Shabbos; if he was Mezid, no one may ever eat the
(d) Answer: The Mishnah discusses Shabbos and Yom Kipur,
teaching that they are the same - just like on Yom Kipur
he may not eat it, whether or not he was Mezid, also on
(e) Question: We cannot say that he was Shogeg, it says 'He
is Chayav Misah'!
(f) Answer: It means, even though he would be Chayav Misah if
he was Mezid, since he was Shogeg, the slaughter is
(g) Question: Why not establish the Mishnah like R. Yochanan
ha'Sandlar, who says that whether he was Shogeg or Mezid,
the food is forbidden?
(h) Answer: R. Yochanan ha'Sandlar distinguishes - after
Shabbos, only others may eat the food; our Tana says, the
slaughter is Kosher, implying that anyone may eat.
(a) A reciter of Beraisos: If one cooks on Shabbos - if he
was Shogeg, he may eat the food; if he was Mezid, he may
not eat it.
(b) Rav silenced him.
(c) Question: Why did Rav do this?
1. Suggestion: He did so because Rav holds like R.
Yehudah, and the reciter holds like R. Meir.
(d) Answer (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): The reciter was saying
if one *slaughters* on Shabbos - if he was Shogeg, he may
eat the meat; if he was Mezid, he may not;
2. Rejection #1: That is no reason to silence him!
3. Rejection #2: Rav does not hold like R. Yehudah!
i. (Rav Chanan bar Ami): Regarding his Talmidim,
Rav would rule like R. Meir - but in public he
ruled like R. Yehudah, on account of
ignoramuses (if they heard that the Halachah
follows R. Meir, they might invent new
ii. Suggestion: Perhaps the reciter said this in
the public class; therefore, Rav had to silence
iii. Rejection: There would be no need - people
listen to the man broadcasting the Chacham's
words, not to a reciter teaching on his own.
1. Rav objected - R. Meir only permits food cooked on
Shabbos, since it could have been eaten raw, but
meat slaughtered on Shabbos could not have been
(e) Question: But the Mishnah says that meat slaughtered on
Shabbos may not be eaten, and Rabanan said that Rav
establishes the Mishnah like R. Yehudah - it must be, R.
Meir would permit it!
(f) Answer: R. Meir only permits when a person (in the
household) was (dangerously) sick when Shabbos began
(they planned to slaughter for him if necessary).
(g) Question: If so, it was permitted to slaughter - why does
R. Yehudah forbid the meat?
3) WHICH INSTRUMENTS ARE KOSHER FOR SLAUGHTER?
(h) Answer: The case is, he became healthy again before the
slaughter; like Rav Acha bar Ada taught.
1. (Rav Acha bar Rav Ada bar Ahavah citing Rav): If one
slaughters for a sick person (on Shabbos), a healthy
person may not eat from the meat; if one cooks for a
sick person, a healthy person may eat the food.
(i) (Rav Papa): Sometimes when one slaughters for a sick
person, a healthy person may eat from the meat, for
example, a person was sick when Shabbos began;
2. Question: Why are these different?
3. Answer: The meat could not have been eaten
unslaughtered; food could have been eaten raw.
1. Sometimes when one cooks for a sick person, a
healthy person may not eat the food - for example,
he detached (Rashi; Tosfos - cooked) gourds.
(j) (Rav Dimi of Nehardai): The Halachah is, if one
slaughters for a sick person, a healthy person may eat
from the meat.
1. Question: Why is this?
(k) (Rav Dimi of Nehardai): If one cooks for a sick person, a
healthy person may not eat the food.
2. Answer: Since the animal must be slaughtered to eat
even a drop, there is no concern that he slaughters
also for the sake of healthy people.
1. This is a decree, lest he come to cook extra for
(a) If one slaughters with a hand scythe, rock or reed, the
slaughter is valid.
(b) Anyone may slaughter, at any time, with anything, except
for a sickle, saw, teeth, or fingernail, for these tear
(c) (Gemara): 'If one slaughters' - this connotes, b'Diavad.
(d) Question: We understand why one should not slaughter with
a hand scythe - he may come to slaughter with the side
that is not smooth;
1. But a rock or reed is Kosher l'Chatchilah!
(e) Answer: It is b'Diavad when they are attached (to the
ground), when they are detached it is l'Chatchilah.
2. (Beraisa): One may slaughter with anything - a rock,
glass, or a reed.
1. (Rav Kahana): If one slaughters with something
attached, Rebbi disqualifies the slaughter, R. Chiya
(f) Question: Does R. Chiya really say it is b'Diavad?!
i. Rav Kahana only said that R. Chiya is Machshir
b'Diavad, not l'Chatchilah.
1. (Beraisa): We may slaughter with anything, be it
detached or attached, whether the knife is above the
animal's neck or below it.
(g) Answer (to both questions): Really, the Beraisa is like
R. Chiya, he permits it l'Chatchilah.
2. Question: The Beraisa is not like Rebbi, nor like R.
i. R. Chiya only permits the slaughter b'Diavad;
Rebbi disqualifies it even b'Diavad!
1. Rav Kahana taught the argument in the b'Diavad case,
to teach that Rebbi disqualifies the slaughter even
(h) Question: Our Mishnah only permits b'Diavad - this is
unlike Rebbi (he forbids even b'Diavad), and unlike R.
Chiya (he permits l'Chatchilah)!
(i) Answer: (Indeed, Answer (g) is correct,) R. Chiya permits
l'Chatchilah; our Mishnah is like Rebbi.
(j) Question: But Rav Kahana taught that Rebbi disqualifies
(k) Answer: Rav Kahana discusses when the knife was always
attached; the Mishnah is Machshir b'Diavad when the knife
was originally detached and later attached.
1. (Beraisa): If one slaughters with a (knife on a)
wheel, it is Kosher; with an attached knife, it is
Kosher; if he stuck a knife in the wall and
slaughtered, it is Kosher;
2. If a reed grew on its own, or a rock jut out from a
wall (e.g. in a cave, similar to the reed, which
grew by itself) and he slaughtered with it, it is