THOUGHTS ON THE DAILY DAF
brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf of Har Nof
Rosh Kollel: Rav Mordecai Kornfeld
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CHULIN 103 (14 Iyar) - this Daf has been dedicated by Harav Yosef Pearlman
of London, England, l'Iluy Nishmas his father, ha'Rabbani Reb Rephael
David ben Yosef Yitzchak Pearlman, who passed away on Pesach Sheni 5758.
1) EATING TWO HALVES OF AN "EVER MIN HA'CHAI"
OPINIONS: The Gemara discusses cases involving one who "splits" an Ever
Min ha'Chai and eats it. Everyone agrees that when one splits an Ever Min
ha'Chai outside of his mouth and then eats it, he is Chayav. When he
splits it inside of his mouth, Rebbi Yochanan says that he is Patur and
Reish Lakish says that he is Chayav.
2) HALACHAH: PLACING MEAT AND MILK ON THE SAME TABLE
What exactly does the Gemara mean by one who "splits" an Ever Min ha'Chai?
(a) RASHI (DH Chalko and DH Mahu) explains that the Gemara is discussing a
case of an Ever Min ha'Chai that is exactly one k'Zayis in size, and the
person splits it into two parts and eats them separately, but within the
time period of "Kedei Achilas Peras." Although this is considered a single
act of eating with regard to other prohibitions, with regard to Ever Min
ha'Chai it is not considered a single act of eating.
According to Rashi's explanation, everyone would agree that one who eats
two halves of an Ever Min ha'Chai in one swallow is Chayav.
(b) TOSFOS (DH Chalko) questions Rashi's explanation. The Gemara asks that
according to Reish Lakish, when is one ever Chayav for eating Ever Min
ha'Chai? According to Rashi, the Gemara is asking that one cannot eat a
full k'Zayis at once, and thus whenever one eats Ever Min ha'Chai he eats
it in pieces less than a k'Zayis. Why is it so difficult to find a case in
which one is Chayav? It is not difficult to swallow a chewed mass of one
k'Zayis at once!
Tosfos therefore explains that the Gemara is discussing a case in which
the two halves are swallowed at once. With regard to the Isur of Ever Min
ha'Chai, the Torah requires that the Ever be placed into the mouth
(according to Rebbi Yochanan) or swallowed (according to Reish Lakish) as
a single, *unbroken* k'Zayis. According to Reish Lakish, one is not Chayav
unless he swallows an entire, solid chunk of a k'Zayis of Ever Min
ha'Chai. Accordingly, the Gemara's question on Reish Lakish is
understandable -- how does one ever transgress the Isur of Ever Min
ha'Chai if he must swallow a solid chunk of k'Zayis at one time? This
indeed is extremely difficult to do. (Z. Wainstein)
QUESTIONS: The Mishnah teaches that not only is it forbidden to eat meat
and milk together, but it is also forbidden to place them on the same
table. RASHI (DH v'Asur) explains that the Rabanan prohibited placing them
on the same table, lest one come to eat them after they have touched each
other (while still hot) and absorbed each other's taste.
3) HALACHAH: FISH WITH MILK
(a) Why does Rashi explain that the concern is that the meat and milk
might touch each other and absorb each other's taste, and then one might
eat one of them? Even if they do not touch each other, it is still
forbidden to eat them together! Why does Rashi have to add that the meat
and milk might touch each other?
(b) Why is there such a strong concern that just because the meat and milk
are placed on the same table, they might be eaten together? Why will a
person not remember that it is forbidden to eat meat and milk together,
the same way he remembers that it is forbidden when he has meat and milk
in the same room (such as the kitchen)?
(a) The MAHARAM explains why Rashi writes that it is prohibited to place
meat and milk on the same table because of the concern that one might eat
meat and milk that have been cooked together. The prohibition to place
meat and milk on the same table is an Isur d'Rabanan. Eating meat and milk
together, when the meat and milk was not *cooked* together, is an Isur
d'Rabanan (108a; see SHULCHAN ARUCH YD 87:1). The Rabanan do not make a
"Gezeirah l'Gezeirah," a decree to safeguard another decree. They only
institute a Gezeirah in order to safeguard an Isur d'Oraisa. Since they
instituted an Isur to place meat and milk on the same table, it must be
that they were trying to prevent an Isur d'Oraisa from being transgressed.
Therefore, Rashi explains that the reason for the decree is to prevent
meat and milk from being *cooked* together and then eaten, which is an
Isur d'Oraisa. (See also MAHARAM SHIF.)
(b) The RAN (32b of the pages of the Rif) writes that the Rabanan were
stricter with regard to the Isur of meat and milk than with regard to
other prohibitions. Since meat is permitted by itself, and milk is
permitted by itself, people are not so careful to keep away from them and
thus are more prone to come to eat them together. Therefore, the Rabanan
prohibited bringing them to the same table.
The Ran rules, based on this approach, that it is permitted to eat at a
table at which other forms of forbidden foods are placed. Therefore, one
may eat at the same table at which a Nochri is eating his wine and other
non-Kosher food. Since a Jew is always careful to stay far away from such
foods, we are not concerned that he might come to eat them when they are
resting on the same table.
The Ran uses this approach to explain the ruling of Rav Kahana in Pesachim
(76b) that bread cooked in the same oven as roasted meat may not be eaten
with dairy food. The Ran writes that this Halachah applies even if we rule
that "Reicha Lav Milsa," the aroma of a substance is considered
insignificant and does not give another food the status of the food of
origin. Nevertheless, with regard to the Isur of meat and milk, the
Rabanan were more stringent, because each one is permitted by itself, and
therefore the Rabanan prohibited eating with milk a loaf of bread that
absorbed the aroma of meat.
The SHACH (YD 88:2) rules, based on the words of the Ran, that even though
meat and milk may not be brought to the same table, it is permitted to
bring meat of Neveilah to the same table as Kosher meat. This is because a
Jew is always careful to refrain from eating Neveilah. The PRI TO'AR,
though, writes that a forbidden food that is not readily recognizable as
forbidden (such as Chelev, fruits of Orlah, untithed fruits) may not be
placed on the same table at which one is eating, because one might forget
that the food is forbidden and eat it (the MA'ADANEI HA'SHULCHAN 88:2
suggests that if it is not feasible to remove the forbidden food from the
table, one may place a note on the forbidden food as a reminder that it is
However, the Shach adds that the Ran's logic does not permit a Jew to eat
at the same table as a Nochri during Pesach. Even though a Jew is very
careful to refrain from Chametz during Pesach, the Rabanan were extra
cautious with regard to the Isur of Chametz and prohibited eating at a
table at which a Nochri is eating Chametz.
The Shach writes further that the Ran's logic does not apply to forbidden
bread. Since bread is a staple food (as the verse states in Devarim 8:3),
a person is much more likely to forget about the Isur and eat the bread.
Therefore, one may not eat at a table on which forbidden bread is placed,
as the Gemara later (104b) teaches (the Gemara there says that had the
Isur of Chalah in Chutz la'Aretz been an Isur d'Oraisa and not d'Rabanan,
it would have been forbidden to bring it to a table at which a non-Kohen
is eating). (See Insights to Chulin 107:5.)
This Halachah has other practical ramifications. Is a person permitted to
prepare or work with dairy food within six hours after eating meat?
Similarly, is a person who ate meat within the past six hours permitted to
sit together with a person who is eating a dairy food? Are we considered
that the person will forget that he ate meat and taste the dairy food?
The PRI MEGADIM (Mishbetzos Zahav YD 88:2) cites the BEIS YAKOV (#12) who
rules that one who ate meat within six hours may not sit with a person
eating cheese, lest his friend give him some cheese to eat. However, if
the one eating the cheese knows that his friend ate meat within six hours,
then they may sit together. The Pri Megadim concludes, however, that we do
not find that people are stringent in this matter. Similarly, the YAD
EFRAIM (88:2) is lenient and permits the two to sit together. The Yad
Efraim adds that it is also the commonly accepted practice to prepare
dairy food even though one ate meat within six hours. However, if the
dairy food is one that is commonly tasted during preparation, one should
take appropriate precautions to be careful not to eat the food while
preparing it. (D. Bloom, Y. Shaw)
OPINIONS: The Mishnah teaches that it is prohibited to cook all types of
meat together with milk, except for the meat of fish and locusts. Rav Ashi
in the Gemara later (104a) explains that when the Mishnah says that it is
not prohibited to cook fish with milk, it means that it is not prohibited
mid'Oraisa nor mid'Rabanan. The Halachah follows the view of Rav Ashi
(SHULCHAN ARUCH YD 87:3), and one may cook fish with milk even
Even though there is no prohibition to cook fish with milk, is there any
reason to refrain from *eating* such a mixture because of health concerns?
We know that it is prohibited to eat fish together with *meat* (SHULCHAN
ARUCH OC 173:2), because the Gemara in Pesachim (76b) teaches that such a
mixture is harmful to one's health.
(a) The BEIS YOSEF (YD 87, DH Dagim) writes that even though it is not
prohibited to cook fish with milk, one should not eat fish that was cooked
with milk because it is harmful to one's health.
(b) The DARCHEI MOSHE writes that there is no source that eating fish with
milk is harmful. He writes that "it seems that the Beis Yosef is mixing
meat with milk" when he writes that fish may not be eaten with milk, when
in fact it may not be eaten with meat. Accordingly, the SHACH and TAZ
suggest that there is a printing mistake in the Beis Yosef, and the word
"milk" should read "meat."
The PISCHEI TESHUVAH (87:9), however, quotes the BEIS LECHEM YEHUDAH who
writes that he discussed with doctors whether eating fish with milk is
harmful, and he discovered that the medical consensus is that eating fish
cooked with milk is harmful, while eating fish fried with butter or milk
fat is not harmful. The PRI MEGADIM (Mishbetzos Zahav 87:3) also writes
that he researched the issue and found that eating fish cooked with milk
is harmful, and he concludes that one should refrain from eating fish with
milk, but one may eat fish with butter. The TESHUVOS ADNEI PAZ (#42) rules
that even b'Di'eved one may not eat fish with milk. (The Pischei Teshuvah
quotes the CHASAM SOFER who argues with these medical findings and says
that there is no danger involved with eating fish and milk.)
The Pischei Teshuvah also quotes RABEINU BACHYE (to Shemos 23:19) who
writes that the view of the doctors is that fish and cheese cooked
together are harmful to one's health. The Pischei Teshuvah concludes that
today, when everyone cooks fish with milk, it is permitted ("Keivan
d'Dashu Bah Rabim"). This is also the view of the YAD EFRAIM.
The KAF HA'CHAYIM also quotes the differing opinions. He concludes that
since the question is whether such a food is harmful or not, it is
possible that in one place the food is harmful, and in another place it is
not. Therefore, in a place where the practice is not to eat fish with
milk, one should be stringent and refrain from eating such a mixture. In
addition, in such a place, one should wash his hands between fish and
milk, and do Kinu'ach and Hadachah.
The common practice today is to be lenient with regard to eating fish with
milk. However, some are stringent and refrain from eating fish with milk.