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Bava Metzia 72

BAVA METZIA 71-74 - Mrs. Estanne Abraham-Fawer has dedicated two weeks of Dafyomi study material to honor the second Yahrzeit of her father, Reb Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Weiner, who passed away 18 Teves 5761). May the merit of supporting and advancing the study of the Talmud be l'Iluy Nishmaso.


(a) If a Nochri who lent a Jew money on interest, issues a new document converting the Keren (the principle) and the Ribis into one joint loan, and also converts to Judaism, when will he be permitted to claim the Ribis, and when will he not?

(b) And what will be the Din in the equivalent case, if a Jew who lent a Nochri money on interest, issues a new document converting the Keren and the Ribis into one joint loan, and the Nochri converts to Judaism, when will he be permitted to claim the Ribis, and when will he not?

(c) The above is the opinion of the Tana Kama in a Beraisa. Why does Rebbi Yossi argue with him in the latter case? What does he say there?

(d) Like which Tana does Rav Chisda Amar Rav Huna rule?

(a) According to Rebbi Meir in a Beraisa, the creditor cannot even claim the *Keren* with a Sh'tar which includes Ribis.
What do the Rabbanan say?

(b) What is the basis of their Machlokes?

(a) What are Sh'tarei Chov ...
  1. ... ha'Mukdamin?
  2. ... ha'Me'ucharin?
(b) Why does the Mishnah in Shevi'is invalidate the former but not the latter?

(c) On what grounds does Resh Lakish establish the author of this Mishnah as Rebbi Meir?

(d) On what grounds then, does Rebbi Yochanan establish the Mishnah even according to the Rabbanan?

(a) What did that creditor do three years after the debtor gave him a field as a security?

(b) On what principle was his threat based?

(c) How did the debtor counteract this? What did he do?

(d) The sale was obviously invalid. The query then arose whether (bearing in mind that he had sold him the field with Achrayus), the money that the debtor now owed the creditor (and which was contained in the document of sale) was considered a documented loan or an oral one.
What are the ramifications of the She'eilah?

(a) Abaye tried to resolve the She'eilah by quoting Rebbi Asi.
What did Rebbi Asi say about a debtor who confessed to the validity of the Sh'tar that the creditor produced against him?

(b) How would that extend to our case?

(c) How did Rava refute Abaye's comparison to Rebbi Asi's case?

Answers to questions



(a) We just cited Rava, who draws a distinction between a regular Sh'tar, which is legal, and the field in our case, which had already been donated to the seller's son, in which case its sale sale was illegal. A little earlier, we cited Rebbi Yochanan, who attributed the prohibition on the creditor to claim even from Meshubadim, even from the date of the loan to the fact that he might claim from the date on the Sh'tar.
Why, Ravina asked Mereimar, did he not rather attribute it to the fact that the Sh'tar was written illegally?
What was Mereimar's reply?

(b) The Mishnah rules in Gitin that one cannot claim Sh'vach Karka'os from Meshubadim.
How does the Beraisa establish the case of 'Sh'vach Karka'os'?

(c) We explained earlier (in the first Perek, that Reuven will make every effort to persuade Shimon to sell him the field, so as not to be termed a Gazlan.
What is the alternative reason for this?

(d) That explains why the Sh'tar is legal there, enabling Levi to claim the Keren from Shimon's Meshubadim.
Why would neither of those reasons apply in our case (of the creditor after three years)?

(a) On what grounds does our Mishnah permit Reuven to give Shimon money at the beginning of the season, for a Sa'ah of wheat that he will only receive at the end of the season, once the price is fixed?

(b) Why does the Tana permit someone who arrives early at the haystack to do this even before the official price has been fixed?

(c) On what basis is the Tana so lenient even though we might have expected him to consider this Avak Ribis?

(d) The Tana says the same about a purchaser who arrives early at the Avit of grapes and the Ma'atan of olives.
What is ...

  1. ... 'an Avit'?
  2. ... 'a Ma'atan'?
(a) Which other two cases does the Tana add to the list?

(b) The Tana Kama permits paying money in advance for manure all the year round. The Chachamim seem to agree with this.
What does Rebbi Yossi say?

(c) 'u'Poskin Imo ke'Sha'ar ha'Gavohah'.
What is 'Sha'ar ha'Gavohah'?

(d) What does Rebbi Yehudah say?

(a) Rebbi Asi Amar Rebbi Yochanan forbids paying for corn in advance relying on the 'Sha'ar she'ba'Shuk'. Rebbi Zeira asked Rebbi Asi whether Rebbi Yochanan was referring to 'ke'Durmus ha'Zeh'.
What did he mean by that?

(b) According to Rebbi Zeira's suggestion, to what sort of Sha'ar would our Mishnah then be referring, when it permits such a sale once the Sha'ar has been fixed?

(c) What did Rebbi Asi answer Rebbi Zeira? Which sort of Sha'ar *was* Rebbi Yochanan referring to?

(a) The Beraisa forbids purchasing corn in advance as long as the new wheat is sold at four Sa'ah per Sela, and the old wheat, at three.
Why would the new crops be sold for a lower price than the old crops?

(b) What is then the reason for the prohibition?

(c) At which stage does the Tana permit it?

(d) He repeats the same Halachah with regard to purchasing wheat from Lekutos if their wheat is sold at four Sa'ah per Sela, and the regular crops, at three.
What makes the wheat of the Lekutos inferior to that of other sellers?

(a) Rav Nachman permits Lekutos to pay one another in advance.
What problem does Rava have with Rav Nachman's ruling?

(b) Rav Nachman gives Rava two answers, one of them, that a regular seller would be embarrassed to borrow the inferior wheat that the Lakut sells.
What is the other answer?

(c) When Rav Sheishes quotes Rav Huna as saying 'Ein Lovin al Sha'ar she'ba'Shuk', he might mean that Reuven is forbidden to stipulate when borrowing money from Shimon that, should he fail to return the loan by a specific date, he will be obligated to give him fruit at the current price.
If Sa'ah be'Sa'ah is permitted in this way, why is it forbidden here?

(d) How does the Behag explain he case?

(a) What did Rav Huna rule when they asked him about Talmidei-Chachamim borrowing money in Tishri (or wheat, according to the Behag) to pay back wheat in Teives?

(b) To reconcile the two conflicting rulings of Rav Huna, we cite Rav Shmuel bar Chiya Amar Rebbi Elazar.
What did he say?

(c) What did Rebbi Elazar's ruling cause Rav Huna to do when he heard it?

Answers to questions

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