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Bava Metzia 63

BAVA METZIA 61,63,64,65 - Mrs. Estanne Abraham-Fawer has dedicated two weeks of Dafyomi study material to honor the second Yahrzeit of her father, Reb Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Weiner, who passed away 18 Teves 5761). May the merit of supporting and advancing the study of the Talmud be l'Iluy Nishmaso.


(a) Rava establishes our Mishnah like Rebbi Oshaya.
What did Rava remark, based on the fact that, on a number of occasions, he explained Mishnahs like him?

(b) What does Rebbi Oshaya quote a Beraisa as saying ...

  1. ... about Reuven who lent Shimon a Manah, and when he went to Shimon's granary for his money (which he needed in order to purchase wheat), Shimon offered him wheat on credit, but at the current market price, if Reuven came for his wheat at market time, and found that it was now worth more than the Manah he had lent him?
  2. ... if in the same case, Reuven came for his wheat in order to sell it and purchase wine, and Shimon offered to give him wine under exactly the same conditions, or if he then went on to offer him oil instead of his wine?
(c) If Reuven gave Shimon a Manah for wheat on credit, and when the time arrived, the price of wheat had risen, Rebbi Oshaya would permit him to take it even if Shimon did not initially have wheat (provided the price was fixed at the time when he paid him the money).
Why is that?

(d) And what is it that transforms this case from a loan into a sale?

(a) Rava extrapolates three Chidushim from Rebbi Oshaya's Beraisa. The first is 'Ma'amidin Milveh al-Gabei Peiros'.
What does he mean by that?

(b) Whose opinion does he come to preclude?

(c) What is the second Chidush?

(d) The third Chidush is like Rebbi Yanai, who says 'Mah Li Hein, Mah Li D'meihen' (that there is no difference whether the purchaser receives the fruit [that has risen in price], or its value in money).
How does Rava learn this from there?

(a) Rav disagrees with Rebbi Yanai.
What does he say?

(b) Rava just proved Rebbi Yanai's opinion from Rebbi Oshaya's Beraisa. Initially, Rav Huna Amar Rav explains the Beraisa ('Kulam Im Yesh Lo, Mutar'), when Reuven made a Kinyan on the wheat.
So what if he did? How does that remove the aspect of Ribis from the transaction?

(c) What problem do we have with this answer?

(d) So we conclude that what Rav really meant was (not that he actually made a Kinyan on the wheat, but) that Reuven specified a corner in his house where to place it.
What is then the Chidush?

(a) Shmuel answers the Kashya from the above Beraisa by establishing it like Rebbi Yehudah in another Beraisa, who permits Reuven, who owes Shimon a Manah, to 'sell' Shimon his field, which will serve as payment for the loan should he fail to repay it by a certain date, but revert to Reuven in the event that he pays, even if *Shimon* eats the fruit.
Why is that?

(b) What does the Tana Kama say?

(c) How does this reconcile the Beraisa with Rav?

(d) What did the Rabbanan retort when Rebbi Yehudah supported his opinion with an incident with Bitus ben Zonin, who (under the same conditions) designated his field to his creditor, who subsequently ate the fruit? Under whose supervision did this transaction take place?

(a) Abaye too, explains the Machlokes between Rebbi Yehudah and the Tana Kama by 'Tzad Echad be'Ribis', as we just explained.
Why did Rebbi Yehudah permit the above transaction, according to him

(b) What do the Chachamim then hold?

Answers to questions



(a) Rava extrapolates from Rebbi Yanai, who holds 'Mah Li Hein, Mah Li D'meihen', that, by the same token, we will say 'Mah Li D'meihen, Mah Li Hein'.
What does he mean by that?

(b) But is this not what the Mishnah later means when it states 'Yazta ha'Sha'ar, Poskin'?

(c) Why do we first refer to the money as 'D'meihen' and the fruit as 'Hein', and then reverse the order, to call the money 'Hein' and the fruit 'D'meihen'?

(a) We learned in the Beraisa of Rebbi Oshaya 'Kulan, Im Yesh Lo Mutar, *Ism Ein Lo Asur*'. There too, the seller initially received money.
Why should we not then apply the S'vara 'Mah Li D'meihen, Mah Li Hein'? This is unclear however, since 'Mah Li D'meihen, Mah Li Hein' is not applicable here, seeing as Rebbi Oshaya forbids him to receive even the wheat, which is the 'D'meihen' itself. See Ritva.

(b) What reason do Rabah and Rav Yosef ascribe to the Din of 'Poskin al Sha'ar she'be'Shuk ... '?

(c) Abaye asked Rav Yosef why 'Sa'ah be'Sa'ah' is not permitted for the same reason, because 'Chiti de'Kadchi be'Akalba'i'.
What does this mean?

(d) What did Rav Yosef answer him?

(a) Rav Ada bar Ahavah queries Rabah and Rav Yosef however, on the grounds that it ought nevertheless to be Ribis because the purchaser gains the fees of a Safsira.
What is a Safsira?

(b) What does Rava reply?

(c) According to Rav Ashi, that is not necessary.
Why not?

(a) Under what condition does the Mishnah later permit buying wheat on credit, based on Tar'a Charifa? What is 'Tar'a Charifa'?

(b) What further condition do Rabah and Rav Yosef add to that of the Mishnah?

(c) Why can the reason for this not be in order to acquire it?

(a) The reason that the purchaser needs to be present at the granary whilst the owner is working there is for the latter to accept a 'Mi she'Para'. Seeing as, in most other cases, the 'Mi she'Para' takes effect irrespective of the purchaser's presence at the granary, what makes this case different?

(b) And what will be the Din if the seller doesn't own a granary?

(c) Rav Ashi qualifies Rabah and Rav Yosef's stringency in this regard.
What does he say?

(a) How does Rav Nachman define Ribis that is connected with buying and selling?

(b) Rav Nachman also permits giving four Zuz to a wax-merchant in order to receive five-Zuzim-worth after the price goes up, provided the merchant already has wax available at the time, but not if he doesn't.
Will it matter if he has wax, but is out of town when he takes the order or if he mislaid the key to his wax-store? Under which category do these cases fall?

(c) What is Rav Nachman coming to teach us? Is this not the distinction between 'Yesh Lo' and 'Ein Lo' that our Mishnah has already taught us?

(a) What does Rav Nachman say about Reuven who borrows a sum of coins from Shimon and discovers more than they agreed upon?

(b) And what does Rav Acha B'rei de'Rav Yosef mean when he says 'be'Isuraysa ve'Chumshaysa'?

(c) How will we explain a discrepancy of ...

  1. ... fifty-five coins say, in a large batch of coins?
  2. ... twenty-five coins?
  3. ... two or three coins?
(a) What did Rav Ashi reply when Rav Acha B'rei de'Rava asked him what the Din will be in the latter case, if the lender was ...
  1. ... a tough guy who does not normally tend to give away gifts?
  2. ... if the same tough guy had never had any previous dealings with the borrower?
(b) In the first of these two cases, how can he fulfill the Mitzvah of returning a stolen object without informing the Nigzal?
Answers to questions

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