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Bava Metzia 73

BAVA METZIA 71-74 - Mrs. Estanne Abraham-Fawer has dedicated two weeks of Dafyomi study material to honor the second Yahrzeit of her father, Reb Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Weiner, who passed away 18 Teves 5761). May the merit of supporting and advancing the study of the Talmud be l'Iluy Nishmaso.


(a) (Beraisa): Reuven was carrying a bundle to a certain place. Shimon offered: 'I will take it and sell it for you; I will use the money, and later return to you according to what it sells for there':
1. If Reuven bears any losses on the way, it is permitted (Rashi - for it is not a loan until he sells it; Tosfos - Reuven must pay Shimon's toil and food);
2. If Shimon bears any losses on the way, it is forbidden.
(b) (Beraisa): Reuven was carrying produce to a certain place. Shimon offered: 'Give them to me (to eat); I will return the same amount to you there':
1. If Reuven has produce there, it is permitted; if not, not.
(c) Donkey-drivers may borrow money on condition to (Rashi - use it and later) return produce according to the lower price in a different city.
(d) Version #1 (Rashi) Question: Why is this allowed? (They work for the buyer without any pay, just use of his money!)
(e) Answer #1 (Rav Papa): The donkey-drivers gain - they become trustworthy in the eyes of sellers in the city where produce is cheap (on other occasions, they will give them on credit).
(f) Version #2 (R. Chananel) Question: Why is this allowed? (Even though they are paid, they bear any loss on the way.)
(g) Answer #1 (Rav Papa): They gain - the buyers tell them where produce is expensive. (end of Version #2)
(h) Answer #2 (Rav Acha brei d'Rav Ika): The sellers give a discount to the donkey-drivers (Rashi - they fear that the donkey-drivers will stop buying from them, since they are not paid).
(i) Question: What is the difference between the answers?
(j) Version #1 (Rashi) Answer: A new donkey-driver. (The sellers start to trust him, but he does not get a discount.)
(k) Version #2 (R. Chananel) Answer: A new lender. (He does not know where the price is expensive, but the donkey-drivers still get a discount from the sellers).
(l) Grain was selling for four (measures for a Zuz) in Sura, and for six in Kafri. Rav gave money (in Sura) to donkey-drivers (to bring from Kafra), he accepted to bear losses on the way. He took from them five measures per Zuz.
(m) Question: He is allowed to take six!
(n) Answer: An important person should not.
(o) Question (R. Asi): May this be done with (other merchandise such as) pieces of metal? (Perhaps the above reasons do not apply, since the donkey-drivers will not frequent the same sellers.)
(p) Version #1 - Answer (R. Yochanan): R. Yishmael b'Rebbi Yosi wanted to do so with linen garments; Rebbi forbade him to.
(q) Version #2 - Answer (R. Yochanan): Rebbi wanted to do so with pieces of metal; R. Yishmael b'Rebbi Yosi forbade him.
(a) (Rav): It is forbidden to give money (when grapes are immature) to receive mature grapes (later) at a low price.
(b) (Shmuel): This is permitted.
1. Rav forbids - since they are worth more later, this resembles usury;
2. Shmuel permits - since the buyer bears losses that may occur to the crop, it does not look like usury.
(c) (Rav Simi bar Chiya): Rav admits regarding oxen.
1. Version #1 (Rashi): In a vineyard harvested using oxen, this is permitted, because the oxen get caught in the vines and losses are common.
2. Version #2 (Tosfos): Rav admits that it is permitted to give money (at a low price) for calves that will be born during the year, since miscarriages are common.
3. Version #3 (Rambam): Rav admits that it is permitted to give money (at a low price) for calves to receive them when they are grown, for they often grow weak or die.
(d) Version #1 (Rashi): There were people that used to lend grain to their sharecroppers (for planting) and receive back (after it grew) new grain.
1. Shmuel: You must help them plow or harvest a bit (so you are entitled to wages) - if not, this is a loan of a Se'ah on condition to return a Se'ah, it is forbidden.
(e) Version #2 (Tosfos): There were people that used to pay in advance to receive a greater value of vines after the harvest.
1. Shmuel: You must make an acquisition in the land now (to acquire the vines) - if not, this is a loan, it is forbidden (since loss is not common).
(f) People that guard standing crops used to be paid after the grain was harvested and threshed; they received extra on account of the delay.
1. Rava: (This is usury) - you must help a bit at the granary, in order that your work continues until then, for then there is no delay in your wages (to attribute the higher wage to it);
i. Wages are only due to be paid at the end of the job.
(g) Rabanan (to Rava): You receive usury!
1. We rent fields for four Korim of grain, which we receive in Nisan - you receive six Korim a month later!
(h) Rava: You act improperly!
1. The land belongs to the renter until the grain fully ripens - you should not make him leave in Nisan!
2. I receive rental when it is due, in Iyar.

(i) Rav Mari bar Rachel took a house as a Mashkanta from a Nochri, who then sold it to Rava. A year later, Rav Mari gave a year's rent to Rava (for the coming year).
1. Rav Mari: Within one year, the Nochri could not have removed me from the field even if he paid the loan; from now onwards, I must pay rent.
2. Rava: Had I known that it was a Mashkanta by you, I would not have bought it; now that I know, I apply to you the law of Nochrim: until he pays you, he does not receive rent - I also will not take rent until I force him to pay you. (This is not usury, for Rava does not owe Rav Mari anything.)
(j) Question (Rava of Barnayish): Rabanan take usury! They pay for wine in Tishrei and take it in Teves, and the seller bears the loss if it sours in between!
(k) Answer (Rav Ashi): If it soured in between, that shows that it was not proper wine from the beginning - they paid for wine, not vinegar.
(a) Question (Ravina): Before the harvest, I give money for wine; I receive an extra measure - is this permitted?
(b) Answer (Rav Ashi): Yes - since there was no stipulation, this is just a gift.
1. Ravina: The sellers do not own the land, they pay the tax for abandoned land and work it - is the wine forbidden because the land was stolen?
2. Rav Ashi: No - the king has rights over the land - he says that whoever pays the land tax, he gets the produce.
(c) Question (Rav Papa): There are Rabanan that pay the head-tax of people, and make them work for them!
(d) Answer (Rava): The king is master over all his subjects - he says that whoever pays another's head-tax may make the person work for him.
(e) Rav Se'oram (Rava's brother) used to grab indecent people and make them pull Rava's rickshaw.
1. Support (Rava - Beraisa): Someone that does not act properly, you may force him to work for you - "L'Olam Bahem Ta'avodu uv'Acheichem" (forever you will work with Kana'ani slaves and with your brothers)";
i. Suggestion: Perhaps this applies even to someone acting properly!
ii. Rejection: "Uv'Acheichem Benei Yisrael (you may not work harshly)."
(a) (Rav Chama): Reuven gave Shimon money to buy wine; he was negligent and did not - he must give him wine as it sells at the major market (cheaply).
(b) (Rav Zvid of Nehardai): That is only if he asked for (unspecified) wine - but if he asked for a specific wine, he just gets back his money - we do not know if they would have agreed to sell to him!
(c) (Rav Ashi): Even if he asked for (unspecified) wine, he just gets back his money.
(d) Question: What is the reason?
(e) Answer: Even if he promised to give his wine if he will not buy, this is only Asmachta, there was no acquisition.
(f) Question: What is the difference between this and the following?
1. (Mishnah): One who rented a field on condition to give a certain amount of (its) produce, and accepted to pay if he will not work the field - this is binding.
(g) Answer: There, he can surely work the field; here, there is no guarantee that they would sell to him.
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